"Foil Copy"

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"Foil Copy"

Posted by clamm

on Sat, Feb 2 2008 11:07 AM

The latest Scale Auto Mag has an article by Juha Airio where he rebuilds a 72 Roadrunner. Anyone who's seen this guy's work probably knows what I know--Juha is the Michael Jordan of our hobby.

OK now on to my question. In this article Juha talks in a few places about "Foil copying" a part. The results seem to be perfect. Does anyone know how he does it? Is he using Bare Metal Foil somehow for this? Resin in molds? Or something else?

Thanks in advance for any advice or links you can provide!!!

===============

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Posted by Anonymous

on Sat, Feb 2 2008 12:49 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by clamm

The latest Scale Auto Mag has an article by Juha Airio where he rebuilds a 72 Roadrunner. Anyone who's seen this guy's work probably knows what I know--Juha is the Michael Jordan of our hobby.

OK now on to my question. In this article Juha talks in a few places about "Foil copying" a part. The results seem to be perfect. Does anyone know how he does it? Is he using Bare Metal Foil somehow for this? Resin in molds? Or something else?

Thanks in advance for any advice or links you can provide!!!

Foil copying (or, foil casting) is done by taking a piece of metal foil--generally aluminum kitchen foil, because it's heavier and stiffer than BMF, laying that over an engraved surface detail of a model body or part, embossing it into that detail (could be a script, a badge, a molded-on door handle, for example). Once it's embossed, it has the impression of the detail you want to copy. Simply lift off the embossed piece of foil, gently lay it on a flat surface, hollow side up, spray with a light spray of Pam or other oily substance to act as a mold release, then mix up some 5-minute epoxy (Devcon is perhaps the best for this!), and fill the embossed foil with that, and allow to cure completely.

Once cured, the epoxy casting can be removed from its foil "mold", sanded on the back side to a flat surface, any flashing trimmed away, and then glued in place on the body shell, or wherever it is to be used. It can then be painted, foiled with BMF, whatever is wanted as you finish the project.

Biscuitbuilder1

Posted by Steve Boutte

on Tue, Feb 5 2008 9:28 PM

The center trim on this console was created by laying kitchen foil on the hood of a '56 Pontiac, & burnishing the ribs. I then cut the foil along edges, & glued it to the console.

Here, you can see the ribs on the hood that it was copied from.

Steve www.sbkustoms.com

Posted by noname

on Wed, Feb 6 2008 10:08 AM

These are great tricks guys. Steve the paint in your last photo is unreal!

Posted by emswife

on Sat, Feb 9 2008 10:07 AM

Biscuit,

what is the advantage to casting a marque or emblem that is already on the model? Is it easier to work with when painting or foiling of just stands out more in relief?

Seems like a duplication of something if the marque is already there?

Just wondering because I have a Mustang with all kinds of this stuff and am attacking that phase of my progression as a model builder.

"Time flies like an arrow; fruit flies like a banana."- G. Marx http://public.fotki.com/emswife/ http://smg.photobucket.com/albums/v515/emswife/ ____________________________________________________________ Patrick

Posted by BigTallDad

on Sat, Feb 9 2008 10:52 AM

At the risk of speaking in behalf of biscuitbuilder1: One advantage is being able to make a copy of the in-place emblem, thus allowing you to sand off the emblem, lay down some nice paint, then attach the copy after foiling it. I'm doing that very thing for the oval hood ornament on my Mustang SVO.

"In order to teach a dog, you must first be smarter than the dog" P.R. Ferguson

Posted by emswife

on Sat, Feb 9 2008 10:56 AM

BTD, I don't think BB would mind, but what you say makes sense. I am on a limited time schedule so maybe next time. And combined with your balsa answer about cleaner the marques after evey coat of paint, I can see the logic in sanding off the marques after foil casting and replacing them.

Thanks

Posted by Anonymous

on Sat, Feb 9 2008 2:42 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigTallDad

At the risk of speaking in behalf of biscuitbuilder1: One advantage is being able to make a copy of the in-place emblem, thus allowing you to sand off the emblem, lay down some nice paint, then attach the copy after foiling it. I'm doing that very thing for the oval hood ornament on my Mustang SVO.

While I never used foil or Silicone II to "pull" emblems and scripts prior to sanding off for painting, I can see the value of that. My painting techniques evolved over time to the point that losing surface details such as those never seems to be a problem, but then, that's me, others may or may not be able to do it as I do.

However, where this DOES work, is in doing conversions. For example, when I did my masters for a resin-cast '59 Chevy "Flat Roof" Sport Sedan (4dr HT), I needed the 4-dr versions of the 2dr HT armrests and door handles--making simple RTV molds of those details from convertible interior panels did the trick. Other foil/rubber cast emblems I've done include the base Chevrolet dash badge from '59 (taken from the AMT '59 El Camino, used on the dash of my '59 Biscayne), and lifting the gauge dials from an AMT 289 Cobra for use on several dashboards of other cars, both resin, and for personal projects.

It's a great little technique.

Biscuitbuilder1

Posted by dsully66

on Sun, Feb 24 2008 5:32 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by biscuitbuilder1

QUOTE: Originally posted by clamm

The latest Scale Auto Mag has an article by Juha Airio where he rebuilds a 72 Roadrunner. Anyone who's seen this guy's work probably knows what I know--Juha is the Michael Jordan of our hobby.

OK now on to my question. In this article Juha talks in a few places about "Foil copying" a part. The results seem to be perfect. Does anyone know how he does it? Is he using Bare Metal Foil somehow for this? Resin in molds? Or something else?

Thanks in advance for any advice or links you can provide!!!

Foil copying (or, foil casting) is done by taking a piece of metal foil--generally aluminum kitchen foil, because it's heavier and stiffer than BMF, laying that over an engraved surface detail of a model body or part, embossing it into that detail (could be a script, a badge, a molded-on door handle, for example). Once it's embossed, it has the impression of the detail you want to copy. Simply lift off the embossed piece of foil, gently lay it on a flat surface, hollow side up, spray with a light spray of Pam or other oily substance to act as a mold release, then mix up some 5-minute epoxy (Devcon is perhaps the best for this!), and fill the embossed foil with that, and allow to cure completely.

Once cured, the epoxy casting can be removed from its foil "mold", sanded on the back side to a flat surface, any flashing trimmed away, and then glued in place on the body shell, or wherever it is to be used. It can then be painted, foiled with BMF, whatever is wanted as you finish the project.

Biscuitbuilder1

Thanks Biscuit! That's the process I had asked about a couple of months ago. I had seen it in either SAE or Car Modeler back in the late 80s/early 90s. It is a cool way to transfer trim details from one kit to another. On my 70 Chevy p/u, I used it to transfer the fender engine badges (8-350) to underneath the sidelights. The only difference was I used white glue instead of 5 minute epoxy. I didn't have any epoxy! I probably wouldn't use white glue as a regular filler though.
Dan

Posted by jjscott

on Sun, Feb 24 2008 8:24 AM

I just tried this method on the V-8 emblems on a 53 Studebaker. I'm finding it difficult to do. I can get what seems to be a good foil pattern/mold. Where my problem comes is when I try to sand the back after molding. Because the car nose and tail isn't flat I'm finding I sand into areas I need to save while leaving excess where I don't want it. I'm using heated 5 minute epoxy for the casting.

I also tried cuting around the emblem from the front side -- that didn't work either.

Guess I need to keep practicing.

Jim

Posted by Anonymous

on Sun, Feb 24 2008 10:30 PM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jjscott

I just tried this method on the V-8 emblems on a 53 Studebaker. I'm finding it difficult to do. I can get what seems to be a good foil pattern/mold. Where my problem comes is when I try to sand the back after molding. Because the car nose and tail isn't flat I'm finding I sand into areas I need to save while leaving excess where I don't want it. I'm using heated 5 minute epoxy for the casting.

I also tried cuting around the emblem from the front side -- that didn't work either.

Guess I need to keep practicing.

Jim

This might be a place to use DAP Silicone II for making the mold of such an emblem, frankly. With the Silicone II RTV, you can make this mold pretty thick, so that it has some stiffness to it, and then once you've gotten a cured epoxy emblem cast in it, simply use the mold to hold that detail part while you file and sand away the excess material. This is were half-round and "double round" needle fies come in very handy! Those files can help you get rid of the excess thickness, while maintaining the curvature to the back of the emblem as needed. Rolling up 400-grit Wet or Dry sandpaper also can work here, and used wet, can help remove the last bit of excess material, so you wind up with tissue paper thin flash that is easily removed.

Just some thoughts here!

Biscuitbuilder1

Posted by jjscott

on Mon, Feb 25 2008 8:00 AM

Biscuitbuilder, thanks.

A silicone mold may just be the answer. I would be concerned with putting the silicone on a body I planned to paint. Any experience with that and fisheyes?

Jim

Posted by Anonymous

on Mon, Feb 25 2008 9:32 AM

QUOTE: Originally posted by jjscott

Biscuitbuilder, thanks.

A silicone mold may just be the answer. I would be concerned with putting the silicone on a body I planned to paint. Any experience with that and fisheyes?

Jim

Jim,

I've not had a problem with Silicone RTV transferring silicones (the biggest enemy of paint adhesion) to the surface of a model. There seems to be a great difference between silicone as part of a synthetic catalyzed or ammonia-cured rubber compound and silicones used as a part of a wax or polish, from my experience.

At any rate, to just be on the safe side, you can degrease the body shell after such work is done, either by washing in a good hand-soap (Dial works great, with an old toothbrush) or by washing down (dipping) the body shell in Naptha (a petroleum based solvent I've used many a time for degreasing styrene and resin parts before painting). Naptha is essentially lighter fluid, does not attack (in my experience) either unpainted styrene or resin) and is readily available in paint departments of home improvement stores, and places like Walmart. Use this stuff outdoors though, as the fumes are flammable.

Biscuitbuilder1

Posted by jjscott

on Tue, Feb 26 2008 10:25 AM

Thanks I'll try it and report back here.

Jim

Posted by Raydee53

on Fri, Jul 4 2008 10:43 AM

I am trying this on my 59 El Camino right now. The kit has bed cover that looks like tuck and roll,so I foil copied that and used some school gel glue to make the part. This is the first time trying the school glue so I hope it turns out.This is just what I had on hand, so I used that.

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