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How far out of scale is flocking?

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  • Member since
    August, 2004
How far out of scale is flocking?
Posted by 7055 on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 2:00 PM
My dad was taking his old Jaguar apart, and he pulled out the carpeting in the interior. I was curious how out of scale flocking is so I decided this would be a good chance to find out. What I did was take my Dad's caliper and measure the thickness of the carpeting that was once on the floorboard of his car. I came up with .206 inch.
Then I flocked a piece of sheet styrene and measured the thickness of the thin layer of flocking. I came up with .020 inch. Then I went to this site and determined that if the carpeting on my dad's car was in 1/24 scale then it would be .009 inches.

Real Carpeting if it were in 1/24 -------- .009 inches

thickness of flocking ------------------------ .020 inches

So you can see that flocking is a bit out of scale, infact its about twice as thick as it should be. Surprisingly its not as far out of scale as I thought. I'm probably still going to use it anyway though, I just thought I would pass this info on.
  • Member since
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  • From: Milwaukee
Posted by JakeCouture on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:40 PM
I always knew it wasn't perfectly to scale (a lot of our materials aren't) but like you, I always thought it would have been worse. Good to know; Thanks Seven!
In the criminal justice system, the people are represented by two separate yet equally important groups. There are the police who investigate crimes, and the district attorneys who prosecute the offenders. These are their stories. Doink Doink! Jake Couture
  • Member since
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Posted by 7055 on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 3:51 PM
Anytime Eyeleveleast,

On the positive side 11 thousandths of an inch of difference is going to be really hard to notice, especailly considering you usually look at flocking from a birds eye view and can't get much depth perception.
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 7:21 PM
I think the carpet you may have pulled out of that model was thicker than the flocking material sold by Detail Master. I have seen some "kit included" carpeting that was way too thick. Flocking may be out of scale, but it's the best thing we have to replicating carpet. Although some of the Model Master Fabric paints look pretty cool. I mean if we are going so far as to be exact scale then better not use the kit windshield's cause their like bullet proof glass thenSmile
I scratchbuilt an Optima battery from demensions on their website and it looked pretty big in the engine compartment. So big the hood hit it, I had to reduce it's size so that it would fit. Made we wonder if the kit was really 1/25 scale or just them having to compensate for the thickness of the plastic to make the model look reasonable.I think if it looks good, go with it.
  • Member since
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Posted by 7055 on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 8:03 PM
Don't get me wrong DblBarrel, I am a huge proponet of flocking. In my opionon it looks very "in scale" you can't get enough depth perception or even notice the difference of 11 thousandthes of an inch in flocking to tell that its out of scale. As for the Model Master flocking (thats what I used) being thicker than detail master, I don't think thats true because it is incredible thin, I don't see how it could get any thinner. I have noticed that Kens Kustom Fuzzi Fur does seem to be much thicker than the model master brand though, I think its designed to be more "Fuzzi". Anyway I agree that flocking looks very good and real even if it is out of scale.
  • Member since
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  • From: Cape Coral Florida
Posted by BigTallDad on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 10:30 PM
Your measurements confirm my rationale that flocking is out of scale; this is why I would never use flocking for anything other than simulating shag carpeting in a seedy motel.

"In order to teach a dog, you must first be smarter than the dog" P.R. Ferguson

  • Member since
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Posted by 7055 on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:06 PM
Yep, well now ya know Big Smile
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Posted by 7055 on Tuesday, July 12, 2005 11:09 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by DBL Barrel
I think if it looks good, go with it.


I agree, if it looks good, go with it, and as far as I can see, flocking looks pretty dogone good.
  • Member since
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  • From: Sayreville, NJ
Posted by mini musclecar man on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 7:42 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by BigTallDad

Your measurements confirm my rationale that flocking is out of scale; this is why I would never use flocking for anything other than simulating shag carpeting in a seedy motel.


Then how do you replicate carpeting?

Another issue with flocking is how you apply it. I first used brush on elmers white glue, then which created uneaven spots, then i tried putting it over wet paint with similar results. Yesterday i used craft spray adhesive and i go a thin even coating that even if it was too thick, the fact that it was consistent fooled the eye that it could be thin. also after it dried i pressed it down to compress the material.
  • Member since
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  • From: Cape Coral Florida
Posted by BigTallDad on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 8:13 PM
Most of my kits have the carpeting already moulded in. Where they don't, I'll lay down a coat of paint, then use a stencil brush on end as the paint dries. It's called "stippeling"

"In order to teach a dog, you must first be smarter than the dog" P.R. Ferguson

  • Member since
    August, 2004
Posted by 7055 on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 9:43 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mini musclecar man

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigTallDad

Your measurements confirm my rationale that flocking is out of scale; this is why I would never use flocking for anything other than simulating shag carpeting in a seedy motel.


Then how do you replicate carpeting?

Another issue with flocking is how you apply it. I first used brush on elmers white glue, then which created uneaven spots, then i tried putting it over wet paint with similar results. Yesterday i used craft spray adhesive and i go a thin even coating that even if it was too thick, the fact that it was consistent fooled the eye that it could be thin. also after it dried i pressed it down to compress the material.


Just passing on some info that may help, Using gloss colors allow a longer drying time and therefore a more even flocking job, when I use flat colors, it tends to be inconsistent, Also I've found that when I press it down, it seems to make clumps and bare spots by pushing other flocking out of the way. Instead I do not press it down but rather tap & blow off the excess flocking.
  • Member since
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  • From: Sayreville, NJ
Posted by mini musclecar man on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 10:31 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by 7055

QUOTE: Originally posted by mini musclecar man

QUOTE: Originally posted by BigTallDad

Your measurements confirm my rationale that flocking is out of scale; this is why I would never use flocking for anything other than simulating shag carpeting in a seedy motel.


Then how do you replicate carpeting?

Another issue with flocking is how you apply it. I first used brush on elmers white glue, then which created uneaven spots, then i tried putting it over wet paint with similar results. Yesterday i used craft spray adhesive and i go a thin even coating that even if it was too thick, the fact that it was consistent fooled the eye that it could be thin. also after it dried i pressed it down to compress the material.


Just passing on some info that may help, Using gloss colors allow a longer drying time and therefore a more even flocking job, when I use flat colors, it tends to be inconsistent, Also I've found that when I press it down, it seems to make clumps and bare spots by pushing other flocking out of the way. Instead I do not press it down but rather tap & blow off the excess flocking.


sorry seven i should have clarified, i tap it off and blow the exess flocking off initially, but after it has dried i press it down so whatever is there is there just not as fluffy anymore.


BTD: Thanks for the tip on the stippling
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Posted by 7055 on Wednesday, July 13, 2005 11:02 PM
Oh got ya now MMM, thats a good idea, never would have thought of that! Smile,Wink, & Grin
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2005 7:33 AM
i use flour. i paint the interior piece i want to be carpeted. drop some flour on it, then blow off any excess after it is dry. i paint over it again. it looks just as good as flocking and matches exactly. MUCH CHEAPER too. i do have to dry brush it a litlle, but i like it better then flocking. it takes some work to learn. you can even use it to replicate seats if you use is very sparingly
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:27 PM
flour...it's what's used in baking...you know...cakes...cookies...etc. Big Smile
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Posted by 7055 on Thursday, July 14, 2005 1:44 PM
Oh I see, I'll try this. Smile,Wink, & Grin
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Posted by Gerard on Friday, July 15, 2005 12:34 AM
What Bigtalldad said.
Gerard> Currently building: 1/700 What-If Railgun Battlecruiser CG-X
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 5:53 AM
so i go to the trouble of getting not 1 but 2 packs of flocking sent to me by seven[thanks man] and now you tell me its outta scale!!!!!!! lmao
  • Member since
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Posted by 7055 on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:00 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by masu01

so i go to the trouble of getting not 1 but 2 packs of flocking sent to me by seven[thanks man] and now you tell me its outta scale!!!!!!! lmao


Sorry Tom, I should have mentioned this to you first. But I still think that you will like it. It looks very real, I think it looks great! I love the stuff, personally you can't tell its out of scale by looking.
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 11:13 AM
anyone that worries about the flocking being out of scale is straining at gnats

the pigments in the paint we use is out of scale too, not to mention the thickness of every model body ever made. hmmm, how thick would 22 gauge sheet metal be at 1:24 scale? thinner than aluminum foil ?
  • Member since
    January, 2005
  • From: Cape Coral Florida
Posted by BigTallDad on Friday, July 15, 2005 7:53 PM
We have no control over the thickness of the material supplied in the kits. We do, however, have control over the modifications we appy to said kits, as well as the pigments used for finishing. To use an actual,factory-matching paint is realistic; to install shag carpets in lieu of short-napped carpets is not.

To carry Rocco's thought further, the chrome parts are (IMHO) much too shiny for a 1/24th or 1/25th presentation, but has anybody ever deliberately dulled the chrome?

I'm an old coot and have lived in 8 different states, but have never heard of "straining at gnats" (might it be straining FOR gnats?) and can't quite fathom how that metaphor relates to this thread.

"In order to teach a dog, you must first be smarter than the dog" P.R. Ferguson

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 15, 2005 8:12 PM
QUOTE:
I'm an old coot and have lived in 8 different states, but have never heard of "straining at gnats" (might it be straining FOR gnats?) and can't quite fathom how that metaphor relates to this thread.

the expression is: straining at gnats and passing elephants lol. I think kit chrome is too shiney as well, and like someone pointed out earlier kit glass is about 8" thick in scale.
flocking looks better than no flocking regardless of scale fidelity
  • Member since
    January, 2005
  • From: Sayreville, NJ
Posted by mini musclecar man on Friday, July 15, 2005 9:19 PM
i am going to work on a solution for the glass problem with my current kit using a technique from the military sector due to the fact that their scales are even smaller. I haven't tried it yet but it involves using a clear plastic called thermoform from a company called Squadron. i'll have a tutorial on it soon.
  • Member since
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Posted by 7055 on Friday, July 15, 2005 10:43 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by BigTallDad
To carry Rocco's thought further, the chrome parts are (IMHO) much too shiny for a 1/24th or 1/25th presentation, but has anybody ever deliberately dulled the chrome?


Occasionaly I like to dullcote the wheels to get them closer to the shine of the 1:1. Or anytime when I want to simulate like polished aluminum or something. The bumpers I usually don't though because I think those are pretty close to the real shine. Looking at pics of musclecars, I think the wheels and window and all other chrome tend to be more dull, while the bumpers seem to be shinier and very close to kit supplied chrome. Could just be because I'm looking at restored musclecars though. Smile
  • Member since
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Posted by Anonymous on Monday, July 18, 2005 4:15 AM
I've always dulled the supplied chrome with a wash of flat black. I might decide to strip the chrome off with bleach, (Oven cleaner does strip it, but since it's a foam it doesn't do a good of a job as dipping in bleach, and it also strips the glossy undercoat) and then repainting with buffable metalizers.

I haven't done this yet, though. No money.\
As for parts being out of scale, I only get anal retentive if it's obviously out of scale.

Seven..measure some real sparkplug wires and then measure whatever wire you use to simulate said wires on 1/25 scale cars. This way, I can see if I should be using painted thread or something else. Thanks.

  • Member since
    August, 2004
Posted by 7055 on Friday, July 22, 2005 11:55 AM
QUOTE: Originally posted by mrparks
Seven..measure some real sparkplug wires and then measure whatever wire you use to simulate said wires on 1/25 scale cars. This way, I can see if I should be using painted thread or something else. Thanks.


Real Spark plug wire if it were in 1/24th scale --------.013 inches

The wire I use (hookup wire)--------------------------------.013 inches

Guess the stuff I use is perfectly to scale. Here is what I use, it hookup wire from Radioshack.



Seven
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 22, 2005 3:25 PM
Thanks. It does look to scale on your charger and roadrunner. I'll have to try that wire.
  • Member since
    August, 2004
Posted by 7055 on Friday, July 22, 2005 3:31 PM
Why thankyou! glad to be of help!
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Sunday, July 24, 2005 2:55 AM
does anyone ever tried to remove 0.011" on the flocking? I've tried it but I'm not quite sur if it's still to long or do I cut it to short. Also, if I use some hair, will it feel realisticor should I use hair for wiring.....Sign - With Stupid
  • Member since
    August, 2004
  • From: Elizabethtown, Ky
Posted by Moparmodeler on Sunday, July 24, 2005 10:11 AM
What?? Flocking out of scale?! Well,...There goes the world and model contest projects.

I really like the Radio Shack wire. use it all the time.

I try to stay close to scale, but usually just come close. And who cares? If it looks good, it looks good.

Go Ahead, ... Flock, Flock away, You who do, Still have my respect

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