SEARCH SCALEAUTOMAG.COM

Enter keywords or a search phrase below:

Should I apply lacquer over Alclad chrome?

3386 views
12 replies
1 rating 2 rating 3 rating 4 rating 5 rating
  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Bath, Somerset, United Kingdom
Should I apply lacquer over Alclad chrome?
Posted by Cycolac Fan on Saturday, March 01, 2008 6:33 AM
Sorry if this subject has been covered 100 times before but...

I painted some resin bumpers yesterday using Alclad II chrome applied by airbush over Humbrol black enamel, two good coats of chrome.

Once it dried it looked pretty good but after about six hours it was obvious the paint was rubbing off if it came into contact with my finger (reaction to oil in my skin?) and revealing the black paint below.
Same situation this morning about 18 hours later.

Is there a lacquer I can use to protect the chrome? I sprayed some Tamiya clear on the back of the bumpers but that made the chrome finish look like shiny metallic aluminium.

Does Alclad take a day or two to dry?

Should I try a coating of Future floor polish?

Can I recoat Alclad over the Tamiya clear?

Thanks
Mike
Mike "Good hands, bad taste in cars." Yes I'm a grown up 'playing' with toys but a lot of adults my age drink beer or play computer games - and I've got something to show for the time and money I've spent...
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Fall River, Ma.
Posted by baycolony on Saturday, March 01, 2008 10:52 AM
Wow, that has never happened to me. It must be that there is a compatibility problem with the Humbrol paints. I know these are prevalent in England but maybe you should try another enamel paint. What I usually do without problems is to spray any black paint and then brush or spray Future over it before applying Alcad. You can even polish the future a bit to get an even glossier shine prior to the Alcad. Hope this helps.

 Here is a link to my other completed kits: 

http://public.fotki.com/GilCosta/

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, March 01, 2008 12:12 PM
That hasen't happened to me either ,, and I DO use Humbrol gloss black under mine. There shouldn't be a problem ,, BTW ,, Steve Boutte also uses Humbrol under his Alclad.

IIRC ,,Alclad DOES make a clear to use over thier chrome but I've never needed it. I haven't heard of anything else to use that wouldn't ruin the chrome effect.

All the "chrome"engine parts in this pic were done using the Humbrol under alclad,, I did have to touch up the valve covers but they got handled A LOT during construction.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Nashua, New Hampshire
Posted by mrmike on Saturday, March 01, 2008 1:32 PM
I have applied Alclad II per the instructions from Alclad's website and have no problems at all. If you have doubts, consult their site.
http://www.alclad2.com/alclad-home.html

"That's Spenser with an 'S' like the poet." Robert Urich Spenser For Hire 1985 

On my bench-2009 Dodge Charllenger SRT8; 1962 Chevrolet Sinkhole Corvette

Classic Plastic Model Club 

The name is Mike...mrmike!

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Bath, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posted by Cycolac Fan on Saturday, March 01, 2008 7:49 PM
It's coming off on my fingers whenever I touch the chrome - goes straight back to the black paint below.

I'm going to have to try and re-coat it I think and just hope it will cover Tamiya lacquer okay - they recommend it as a base coat so should be okay, unless anyone has any other bright ideas that don't include BMF?
Mike

Mike "Good hands, bad taste in cars." Yes I'm a grown up 'playing' with toys but a lot of adults my age drink beer or play computer games - and I've got something to show for the time and money I've spent...
  • Member since
    January, 2005
  • From: Sayreville, NJ
Posted by mini musclecar man on Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:06 PM
QUOTE: Originally posted by Cycolac Fan

It's coming off on my fingers whenever I touch the chrome - goes straight back to the black paint below.

I'm going to have to try and re-coat it I think and just hope it will cover Tamiya lacquer okay - they recommend it as a base coat so should be okay, unless anyone has any other bright ideas that don't include BMF?
Mike




Alclad does not adhere to Tamiya gloss black lacquer. I learned that the hard way. It works best over gloss black enamel paint that has been drying for only two days or so. I have been told that alclad needs a slightly soft paint to bond with. Gloss enamel paints can take upwards of a week to cure to the hardness of a laquer that has been drying for a few hours to a day.
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Nashua, New Hampshire
Posted by mrmike on Saturday, March 01, 2008 8:10 PM
I seems to me that there is something on your black paint that is preventing the Alclad form grabbing onto. Be sure to let the gloss black paint "gas out" before using Alclad.

"That's Spenser with an 'S' like the poet." Robert Urich Spenser For Hire 1985 

On my bench-2009 Dodge Charllenger SRT8; 1962 Chevrolet Sinkhole Corvette

Classic Plastic Model Club 

The name is Mike...mrmike!

  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Bath, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posted by Cycolac Fan on Sunday, March 02, 2008 7:56 AM
From the Alclad website; which mrmike kindly provided a link to:

QUOTE: ALCLAD High Shine -Chrome and Polished Aluminium both require a dark glossy base. Polished Aluminium should be used over Tamiya TS-14 gloss black,or gloss black auto paint. Chrome and only chrome should be used over gloss black model enamel paint.


So Tamiya is fine for everything but the paint I'm using - typical!
I don't know of another enamel spray paint available in the UK other than Humbrol.

The Humbrol enamel black paint has been dry for well over a month, probably nearer two months. Humbrol enamel always used to take a long time to dry so I was careful to let it completely cure.

The Alclad is rubbing over almost melting onto my skin. It can also be taken straight off with a clean dry cloth so clearly something I have done is wrong.

I'm going to try and re-coat it. The finish was a little patchy anyway so perhaps a heavy coat and a long drying time will help?

Thanks for all the suggestions thus far.
Great looking Lincoln there CanCon.
Mike
Mike "Good hands, bad taste in cars." Yes I'm a grown up 'playing' with toys but a lot of adults my age drink beer or play computer games - and I've got something to show for the time and money I've spent...
  • Member since
    March, 2004
  • From: Bath, Somerset, United Kingdom
Posted by Cycolac Fan on Monday, March 03, 2008 2:45 PM
Well I stil haven't solved the problem but I have learned some stuff:

You can airbrush Alclad chrome srtraight over Tamiya lacquer without problems, Alclad will also go straight over Humbrol black paint that has been sprayed only minutes before with no ill effects.

You can recoat Alclad chrome several times. I'd always heard two coats was the limit but managed five today without problems.

I always found through various oversprays and spillage that you chrome black plastic (a jar lid and the airhose of my airbrush) and blu tack (fun tac) as well as cardboard.

It's less inclined to rub off tonight some 8 hours after spraying but still by no means soild and dry.
Is it as reaction to the warm oils in my skin? I sometimes get the same effect with newsprint - the ink used on the cover of Scale Auto for instance.

The experiement continues, all comments are welcome.
Mike

Mike "Good hands, bad taste in cars." Yes I'm a grown up 'playing' with toys but a lot of adults my age drink beer or play computer games - and I've got something to show for the time and money I've spent...
  • Member since
    February, 2005
Posted by keeko40 on Wednesday, March 05, 2008 6:49 PM
Hey Cycolacfan I have had the same issues with alclad II chrome. I used Krylon glossy black as a base ,then a couple coats of chrome, and when I pick up the part, regaurdless of how long it has set, it always exposes the black where I have touched. If you find a solution I'm all ears?
  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Oregon: Tree Country.
Posted by Treehugger Dave on Friday, March 07, 2008 10:18 AM
Hi there Cycolac Fan Big Smile

I understand yours and others frustration using Alclad, but it is a great product and just takes some time and a little help to become successful at it.
I did a posting on this 6 or 7 pages back called TIPS USING ALCLAD. There's 3 pages from different users and may help you some.
I have been using ALCLAD since it came out and have done seminars up and down the West Coast, Calif. to Wash.,including at the 2007 NNL West in Santa Clara, so I've paid my dues on this stuff - LOL Cool
I've never used the Humbrol products you mentioned, but I'll share with you what works for me.
Regardless what the instructions say on the ALCLAD bottle, I can spray it over everything I've tried so far - enamels, lacquers and even catalyzed urethanes. What's important is the "Bite" or grip the ALCLAD has on what you spray it over.
If your base coat color ( Black or clear - I recommend using clear over the black - I'll tellyou why later) is too dry, where the ALCLAD won't stick, or the ALCLAD hasn't dried long enough, in either case, it will rub off EASILY!! There is a window of time for the black to dry - never more than 24 hours, then it's too dry and the ALCLAD will, as I said, rub off - RedundanceBig Smile
Heat and timing are critical to successful painting and to the use of ALCLAD CHROME.
Paint and ALCLAD dont like the cold. Moisture is ALWAYS present when it's cold and any professional painter on this site will tell you that moisture and cold are KILLERS in any type of painting. Moisture mechanically and chemically change the product.
HEAT - I realize that probably most everyone reading this, unfortunately, spray outdoors, which is really the worst case senario, and there is nothing predictable i.e temperature, quality of STILL ( not moving ) air, dust free, etc., even a garage or shed is better, if availabe.
I have a small walk in spray booth that is heated, lit and ventilate. I've been building over 50 years now and got tired of dealing with all that Dead - LOL
Anyway, at about 80 - 85 degrees, I seal the plastic with a good quality lacquer primer, I set it aside a week to off-gas and dry.
Next, at the same temperature, I shoot my Duplicolor gloss black lacquer. Three coats - light, medium and heavy. 15 minutes drying between each coat. Wait another 15 minutes and shoot a wet coat of Plasticote clear ( after my last posting on ALCLAD TIPS a lot more guys here are using the clear - refer back to page 6or 7).
At this temperature I shoot the ALCLAD 15 to 30 minutes later and can handle it within an hour without it rubbing offAngry. ( Because of the heat and timing, the ALCLAD has a "grip" and won't rub off)
If you shoot the ALCLAD at around 72-75 degrees, let it dry for a week before handling.
Don't clear coat it, as it will dull !!
I hope this helps. Any questionsQuestion I'll be glad to answere them.

All the best - DaveSmile



I love Mecum Auctions and Barrett/Jackson auctions.

I bought all the model stuff I wanted for Christmas because no one else would spend that much on me Laugh Laugh

 

                                     

 

 

  • Member since
    February, 2017
Posted by lordraptor1 on Monday, February 06, 2017 6:45 AM

first off your issue is you put a lacquer over an enamel.  ok with that said, alclad makes a topcoat to use over their lacquers but you oculs also use automotive laquer put on in thin coats after the chrome has dried for a hour or 2.  also i dont know what the difference is but there are 2 versions of "chrome" on alclads site one for plastic and one for lexan.

 

what i recommend is a black lacquer base coat either alclad brand or automotive laquers, and top it with alclad clear or automotive clear lacquer.

  • Member since
    January, 2017
Posted by 195X on Monday, February 06, 2017 1:54 PM

I find it best to spray Allclad right after the black while it's still wet. They do make a clear coat for the Alclad. Future will only make it worse and recoating over the clear won't work either. Best option is to strip-n-clean, re-prime and hit it with a couple mist coats of automotive black. Then have your Alclad ready to shoot when you throw the wet coat of black. I don't even let the black flash before the first hit of Alclad.

"I'm just here for the entertainment."- George Carlin

JOIN OUR COMMUNITY!

Our community is FREE to join. To participate you must either login or register for an account.

FREE MONTHLY NEWSLETTER
SUBSCRIBER-ONLY CONTENT