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TUTORIAL on opening door details.

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  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Portland Oregon: Tree Country. Most beautiful area on the West coast.
TUTORIAL on opening door details.
Posted by Treehugger Dave on Friday, October 25, 2013 5:06 PM

I told Idonthavetimeforthis - AKA Chris, I would do this for him. So here you are Chris, I hope this helps you and anyone else following along.

I don't claim to know what is the best way to do much of anything. This is just the way I do it Thumbs Up.

Opening doors on later model cars like your Charger, is usually more work than on a street-rod, at least for me. Later model cars have more contours, and most street-rods are usually pretty flat, and don't have the more complicated jamming on the body and the doors.

After the doors are removed, one of the first things I look at is hinge placement and body features that the doors have to clear to open

I want the doors to open level with the ground, so I bend up a set of hinges for both doors, and cut 2 receivers per hinge that the hinge will slide into. I use all brass pieces. Some guys use styrene tubes for the receivers, but if you need to adjust placement, brass glued in with super-glue will pop off using pliers, but if you used plastic - GOOD LUCK ADJUSTING, plus brass tubes are much smaller in diameter and gives you less clearance problems.

Here's a pic of the demo car I'm using.

OK - The next thing I do is tape the doors back in place, and figure out where the hinges need to go. Mark the placement on the body for the hinge, and mark the 2 receiver locations on each door.

Now your ready to build door jams, which when done will decide the flushness of the doors with the body. This takes practice and experimenting. No stage of model building is a slam-dunk, so be prepared for some do-overs. No one showed me how to do this so I had plenty of do-overs and all kinds of boo-boo's (That's mistakes in model builders talk Smile, Wink & Grin).

Don't forget you want to use magnets, so you need to order some, and when they show up you need to make sure your jams have enough width for the magnets to fit after you drill the holes for them.

The magnets are round, 1/32 inch thick, and 1/16 inch diameter - Very small, but extremely strong. I use 2 per side. One in the bodies door jam, and one in the door itself. Make sure you get them in the right direction towards each other as magnets REPEL each other if you get the wrong POLES facing each other.

Where to get the magnets.: WWW.AMAZINGMAGNETS.COM

The order # is DO32-063 NdFeB disc magnets and you gat 100 of them for around $10.00, and about another $10.00 for shipping.

Remember when your building your jams leave enough room to drill your holes for the magnets all the way through the jam, so you can adjust the depth from both sides.

The holes in the doors for the magnets need to be deep enough for them to mount flush with the back-side of the doors, and the magnet in the body needs to be below flush. If you glue in the magnets and they touch - GOOD LUCK getting the doors apart. This is where "eyeballing" and experience comes in when installing the magnets. They should be about .020 apart to work well but not "Glue themselves together" Laugh.

The next pics show the built jams on  this late model example.

The next thing I think about is clearance for the door to open past the front fender. I trim the leading edge of the door back to at least a 45 degree angle, sometimes a whole bunch more. This is just the "roughing-in" stage for when you get the doors installed and check the fit the first time. Same thing for the hood and trunk if you open them.

In the next pic of the doors back-side, you can see a black line at the leading edge of the door. That black line represents how far back I trimmed the the edge of the door to form a "Knife-edge".

OK, Centering the door.

Once the jams are built and finished something like in the above pics, it's time to "prop" the body on it's side and lay the door in place where you want it, and make sure the door edges are smooth, and that the gaps will leave enough room for paint and still close. No formula for this. It's just plain ol' experience and back to "EYEBALLING".

Also make sure you leave more gap in the front for opening. Same for the hood and trunk, or you'll be the guy with a nice looking model, with features that won't close Bang Head.

If the door gaps are too large, you can use thin sheet platic a little thicker than you need glued to the door, edge, then when dry, sand to your liking. Or you can use body filler, and sand to shape..

Once the doors are to your liking, tape them in place and install your hinges. Use a pencil to draw on the back-side of the door the outline of the jam. From that line to the edge of the door you sand off some plastic to make room for the paint so the door, hood and trunk will close after paint.

Once in a great while I'll have a closing feature that won't close, and I have to go back and trim off some paint, and then carefully tape the area off and repaint.

It takes many years and many mistakes and lots of practice Chris- but if you stay with it, you won't believe how great you'll feel, and how proud of yourself you'll be when the magnets make the doors "SNAP" when they close.

Like I said, this is how I do it, and I'm sure you'll come up with your own formula over time.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask.

All the best,

Dave

 

 

 

                                     

 

 

  • Member since
    August 2013
  • From: West Seneca, NY (Buffalo)
Posted by Snork56 on Friday, October 25, 2013 8:09 PM

Thanks, Dave...  Real nice, n' simple..   once you get the hang of it!!  

To get back up when you are down, fight when you are struggling, give the extra effort when you are in pain, come back when no one expects you to and stand up tall when people try to pull you down.    That is what makes up a true champion!!   Snork56 (S56) Henry D.  

  • Member since
    October 2012
Posted by Idonthavetimeforthis on Friday, October 25, 2013 8:38 PM
Thanks very much for this Dave! This is stellar! Any trick to getting the proper distance from the inner door skin to the interior door panel so the interior panel sits flush and vertical against the rest of the interior? I am on those magnets!
Chris
  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Portland Oregon: Tree Country. Most beautiful area on the West coast.
Posted by Treehugger Dave on Friday, October 25, 2013 8:59 PM

Idonthavetimeforthis
Thanks very much for this Dave! This is stellar! Any trick to getting the proper distance from the inner door skin to the interior door panel so the interior panel sits flush and vertical against the rest of the interior? I am on those magnets!
Chris

If I understand the question properly, making things fit flush is a matter of test fitting and shimming until it looks good to YOU. Really can't explain it better, as some things are so hands-on, and a matter of taste.

Lot's of gray area's in building that are hard to explain, but I do my best.

Even video's don't show everything.

Hope this helps a bit.

Dave

And thanks Snorks for the nice comment Thumbs Up.

 

 

 

                                     

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2012
Posted by Idonthavetimeforthis on Saturday, October 26, 2013 6:49 AM
Thanks Dave! I'll give it a go. Onward and upward!
Chris
  • Member since
    January 2005
  • From: Cape Coral Florida
Posted by BigTallDad on Monday, October 28, 2013 1:32 PM

Nice work Dave! Mind if I copy the link for this tutorial into my collection?

http://cs.scaleautomag.com/sca/general_discussion/f/3/t/113982.aspx

"In order to teach a dog, you must first be smarter than the dog" P.R. Ferguson

  • Member since
    December 2007
  • From: Portland Oregon: Tree Country. Most beautiful area on the West coast.
Posted by Treehugger Dave on Tuesday, October 29, 2013 11:01 AM

BigTallDad

Nice work Dave! Mind if I copy the link for this tutorial into my collection?

http://cs.scaleautomag.com/sca/general_discussion/f/3/t/113982.aspx

Hey BIGTALLDAD

Sure, no problem.

But don't worry about the credit part. I just hope it helps

I had no idea that you had such a nice collection of tutorials. I'll have to go through and see what I can use.

Dave

 

 

 

 

                                     

 

 

  • Member since
    October 2012
Posted by Idonthavetimeforthis on Tuesday, November 26, 2013 5:24 PM

THD: Your tutorial is thorough, well-written and illustrated.  So, naturally, I've decided to try something different (and ramp-up the difficulty for a less-experienced modeler at the same time!).  I haven't passed the point of no return, meaning from where I'm at, I can still go with the bent-rod method.  But I found another way to do hinges that allow for the leading edge of the door to point inside the front fender, rather than have that leading edge come out from behind the front fender.  I did not come up with this, I found it on a forum.

Of course, the problem I've given myself is that I have to set this within the door skin and against the kick panel of the interior vertically (so the door opens and closes horizontally) when neither attachment point is vertical, nor permanently attached right now.  I'd like to take this apart to do the painting. It's a 68 Charger, not a hot rod that might be easier on me.

I figured, however, that I'd have similar, though probably fewer, problems if I did the bent-rod method.  There will be a lot of fiddling to get the gap between the door skin and the interior panel correct, the spacing between the interior panel and the kick panel/rear side panel, and the pivot point.Confused

  • Member since
    December 2005
Posted by blunc on Thursday, November 28, 2013 3:30 PM

this method looks like the tutorial I posted on another forum (nice to see someone trying this).

I suggest beveling the edge of the front door opening so that the front of the door will not bind when opened.

Then tape the door to the body, temporarily attach the door hinge assembly to the door, now (with the interior bucket removed from the body shell) make a panel that can be glued permanently to the inside of the body that you can also glue the plastic part of your hinge assembly to.  try to leave a gap or space so you can get the hinge pin/pins out and back in after painting.

  • Member since
    June 2019
Posted by Grahamj on Saturday, June 29, 2019 8:33 PM

Dave can you show me how to do hinges where door turns into the fender? 

Graham

  • Member since
    December 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Thursday, July 4, 2019 9:10 AM

Grahamj

Dave can you show me how to do hinges where door turns into the fender? 

Graham

 

The method that Idonthavetime... mentioned above will result in a door of which the leading edge will tip in behind the rear edge of the fender.

Alternatively, using the method that Dave presented, but installing the hinge in the opposite manner (that is to say, putting the vertical pivot portion of the hinge on the door instead of the inside of the front fender) will also result in the leading edge of the door tipping in behind the rear edge of the fender.

There are some considerations to be made, though. Because of the thickness of the door and fender material (a scale thickness of over 3/4" in many cases), the leading edge of the door will bind on the trailing edge of the fender, if a proper panel gap is maintained. To avoid this, the thickness of the trailing edge of the fender must be thinned by removing material from the inside surface. In order to get a smooth operating door with a good panel gap, and make an allowance for the aditional build up of paint thickness on the door, the trailing edge of the fender must be almost paper thin to allow clearance for the leading edge of the door to 'tip in' behind the fender.

Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
       - Antoine de Saint-Exepury

Trevor

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