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Lacing up wheels

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  • Member since
    May, 2005
Lacing up wheels
Posted by junkyard on Saturday, July 14, 2007 9:47 PM
Has anyone ever tried respoking a wheel ? If so would like to know how you do it ?
  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, Australia
Posted by zenrat on Sunday, July 15, 2007 4:11 AM
I've replaced spokes on bicycle wheels and that was a pain in the proverbial to get them true.
What scale?
Wire spokes or cast?

In both cases some sort of jig would make things easier. It would hold the hub central to the rim and maintain correct offset.

Try to find someone who has built a Pocher car kit. Some of them have spoked wheels you have to lace up.

It's the 21st Century. Where's my Jet Pack & Flying Car? On the bench - detritus mainly.

Ninjas don't have pockets.

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Florida's Suncoast
Posted by CarModDave on Sunday, July 15, 2007 7:52 AM
While not "motorcycle specific", here's a how-to from the Straight Line Modelers about making fromt wire wheels for drag cars. I'd say the same principles apply!

http://straightlinemodeler.org/wirewheels.htm
  • Member since
    December, 2005
  • From: Chandler, AZ
Posted by del austin on Sunday, July 15, 2007 11:50 AM
Dave,
Great how-to Big Smile Think I'll try it out with some early Ford wheels on my next build. Thanks!
  • Member since
    October, 2006
Posted by freakintiger on Sunday, July 15, 2007 1:28 PM
Wow! I have to stop coming here and looking at this stuff...

...I'll never get a model done...


  • Member since
    May, 2005
Posted by junkyard on Sunday, July 15, 2007 9:23 PM
Thanks for the info guys and Dave I've taking a look at the site and will be trying it out on an old 1/8 bike wheel from my parts box. Let you know how things go.
  • Member since
    January, 2006
  • From: Mornington Peninsula, Victoria, Australia
Posted by zenrat on Monday, July 16, 2007 1:09 AM
Wow, nice link.

0.01 inch rod works out as 3mm thick spokes in 1/12 which is about right.

It's the 21st Century. Where's my Jet Pack & Flying Car? On the bench - detritus mainly.

Ninjas don't have pockets.

  • Member since
    August, 2004
  • From: Conn. USA
Posted by GPERZERK on Tuesday, July 17, 2007 11:01 PM
Now that's what I've been looking for too.
A side from building plastic models , I build turn of the century R/C aircraft too. I've been looking for some real light weight spoke wheels for some of my builds and was thinking of trying my hand at makeing my own.
That site is and going to be a big help.
I thank you too for the info.
  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Florida's Suncoast
Posted by CarModDave on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 8:43 AM
Very cool, guys. I'm happy that the link was helpful.

  • Member since
    October, 2004
  • From: LIVE from Downtown Nowhere!!
Posted by lizardlust on Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:50 PM
Thanks for the info, Dave - all I gotta do now is come up with the intestinal fortitude to try it!!!
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 20, 2007 2:46 PM
Hello folks,
this is my method for lacing up wheels:
First I remove the drum brakes or wheel centers.



Next thing to do is to drill the holes for the new spokes:


The old plastic spokes show the way and angle..

To center the rim and in this case drum brake I make a jig out of sheet with a
center axle:

Now to the fun part: the spoking process. The spoke ends are made of brass tube with a diameter of 0.8mm outside and 0.5mm inside. I use another jig for cutting the tube in the right lenght.
Spokes for 1/8 or 1/9 scale are made of 0.45 mm stainless steel insect pins.
For smaller scales like 1/12 or even 1/16 I use 0.3mm stainless steel rod and spoke ends out of vinyl tube.




Here´s a finished wheel for a 1/16 scale Harley Davidson Model F form Aoshima/Entex



And Yes the wheel is perfectly centered, it is just the camera angle that makes it look like this..



Hope it looks convincing!

Try It!
Uli

The report in German can be found here:
http://www.razyboard.com/system/morethread-undgtundgtneuespeichenfuermodelle-the_no3-254201-4194485-0.html




  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Friday, July 20, 2007 11:16 PM
Another example of respoking is at www.freewebs.com/martsmodels/.

Pete
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 21, 2007 3:36 AM
Uli............

May I enquire as to where you found the insect pins and brass tube? - I trawled the net and had no luck at all, the only guy I contated stopped responding to my e-mails once he found out I wanted them for modelling purposs rather then the intended ones - strange!
I suspect you may be based within Europe? - and I checked out the site you posted. Excellent, I wish I could have done more than just look at the pictures though [My German only amounts to just the few words that I shouldn't use anyway!!]

Here's a pic' I posted recently of my only attempt at lacing a motorcycle wheel - as you can see you'll recognise the basis of the model as the Werner cycle.



Junkyard...............

Here's a link to possibly the best M/c site on the web ............ "Kimshouse"
It's all in Japanese but the pic's do all the talking. A mind blowing selection of Motorcycle models of all scales........... here's a tip though...............
when viewing a particular model, if you scroll down there's usually a red bar about half way - click this and it takes you to the build album. Be prepared to spend several hours at this site, it's one of the few I revisit regularly just to see what he's done next.

http://kimshouse7015.com

All the best for now...................... Andi
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, July 21, 2007 7:27 AM
Hello Andi,
if you search the web for entomology suppliers you will find some adresses for the pins like this:
http://www.compleatnaturalist.com/Catalog_Category_pages/entomology_supplies.htm
The brass tube is from a RC model shop, also the 0.3mm rod. Unfortunatly I haven´t found a 0.45mm rod, would be much cheaper than the insect pins.

I know the website of Kinichi Karube KIMSHOUSE. Actually I get many inspirations from this site. I love his models and building style.

Cheers
Uli
  • Member since
    May, 2005
Posted by junkyard on Saturday, July 28, 2007 12:26 AM
Still organizing all the parts i will need to lace my first wheel. Was at the LHS today and asked some questions about spoke material and a member of the staff appeared with K&S Brass rod and also piano wire in different sizes .020" up to .045" , 36" long. They use this for train lay outs and some use for spokes for RC aircrafts wheels and suspension. Tried bending piano wire and cutting some, proved tobe very fragile and hard to cut ,so I quess it will be brass to use. Also was suggested as it is my first attempt not to remove all the spokes, that way I will not lose my center point and to us the same pattern as the kits wheel.
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 1:14 AM
Hi junkyard,

I guess brass spokes are too soft to use.
Besides it is the wrong colour
unless you want golden spokes.

At my first attempt in lacing wheels I used silver wire
which is also very soft. You can´t correct any dents .
Look for stainless steel wire. It is harder but still
bendable.
I found mine at a RC model shop.

Good luck!

Uli
  • Member since
    May, 2005
Posted by junkyard on Wednesday, August 01, 2007 9:31 AM
Hi protarguy, Good to hear from you. Nice work on the Harley. As for my first attempt I did removed the hub from the rim and was unable to find the proper angle of the spoke. Do you know of a way to relocate the spokes from hub to the rim? Would be appreciated. At the moment I'm trying the method found in the site that pete rogers sent keeping four spokes in place and replacing the remainder. Now it is learning how to lace wheels and with all your help build a better wheel.
Thanks Junkyard
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Thursday, August 02, 2007 1:34 PM
Hi Andi.
To get the correct angle of the spokes first make a jig like shown in my report.
It is for centering the rim and hub. Normally the hub is wider than the rim when viewed from the side. Make sure that the rim is also centered from this point. I measure the width of the rim , let´s say 5mm and the hub, let´s say 8mm. the difference is 3mm. so for the jig : the rim must be 1.5mm higher on the surface than the hub. Excuse my english but I guess you get the point. I use 1mm and 0,5mm plastic sheet for the jig. The hub is centered on a 1.5mm or 2mm axle.
In the rim there are normally 40 holes for the spokes. on each side of the hub/brake drum there are 20 holes. For the angle you can old a pair of the cut out plastic spokes against the holes and turn either the rim or the hub until the spokes and holes are in line. Fix it with tape. Now insert your first pair of metal spokes. One comes to the outside and one comes from the inside of the hub. Then I count the open holes between this pair of spokes on the rim and on the hub. Note it and continue the process. After one side of the hub is full with spokes turn around the rim with hub and continue on the other side. I fix the spokes with super glue. Before I inster the spokes I slip on the brass tube pieces for the nipples. So my holes in the rim are 0.8mm or 0.9mm and the holes in the hub are 0.5mm for 1/8 or 1/9 scale.

Another method would be drawing a spoke diagram with the aid of a grafic program or by hand. Insert it under the wheel in your spoking jig.

If you choose the method of replacing the spokes piece by piece ro if you leave some plastic spokes in the wheel it is difficult for properly cleaning up and painting the wheels. It is better to work with seperate pieces.
Phew, lots of words...
Try it!Big Smile
Uli
  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Canada
Posted by eajonesgue on Friday, August 03, 2007 3:52 PM
I've replaced spokes on one 1/25 scale wheel and the results and progress photos can be seen at
http://www.eajonesgue.com/scalemodels/FlatheadTrike.html

As you can see, I took one half of the wheel and replaced 6 spokes at a time. This way, I didn't need to make a jig to hold everything. The wire is small diameter guitar string which cuts and bends a little easier than piano wire. I got mine by asking at a local music store if I could go through a garbage can they had from replacing the strings on a guitar.

One problem with the method is that you end up with a rim and hub that need to be painted after you're done because the plastic spokes are much thicker than the wire ones. At 1/25 scale, I was able to just brush paint the inner rim silver and the hub semi-gloss black. At 1/12 scale, you may have to mask and paint (good luck)
Evan Jones http://www.eajonesgue.com/scalemodels
  • Member since
    May, 2005
Posted by junkyard on Monday, August 06, 2007 10:26 AM
Hello to All,
After multipal tries, I plan to reorganize myself and restart new before I scrap another set of wheels. A question, many of the methods used show the rims have been assembled, is there a reason for this? Many thanks for your assistance as I never thought relacing a wheel could be this much trouble, but once I guess I accomplish the method it may be easier than I could have imagined.

Thanks again Junkyard
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 06, 2007 1:16 PM
Mr. Junkyard,
do you sometimes read the answers we were giving you?QuestionGrumpy

Which wheels do you want to work over, from which bike?

Uli


  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 06, 2007 6:32 PM
Uli................

I think you may be getting us confused?

I'm Andi, and the werner bike is mine. I'm also quite comfortable with the methods I use to lace wheels.

Junkyard is the other guy [Sorry to refer to you in the third person Junkyard] and I believe he posted the initial and subsequent questions.

Does that help a little?

All the best for now............... Andi.
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Tuesday, August 07, 2007 12:47 AM
Sorry Andi,

Junkjard showed a pic of the Werner Bike in one post and I thought it was his.

Hope I got this one clear.

BTW excellent work on your bike!!

I just corrected the post.

Uli


  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Wednesday, August 08, 2007 1:04 AM
Junkjard,
before you rip apart the next wheel, simply take a photo of it or put it in your scanner, print it out 1/1,
Voila! A perfect lacing pattern!
Uli
  • Member since
    May, 2005
Posted by junkyard on Thursday, August 09, 2007 9:12 AM
Hello Uli,
Have read all the posts that have been sent and made notes of each and I am in the process of building a jig to center the rim and hub so I can start over. Thanks for the idea of making a copy of the spoke pattern and will be doing that sometime today.

The bike I am building is a basket case, it is 1/8 MPC Honda racer driven by Dick Mann in Daytona around the 70's.

Uli and Andi, no problem with the mix up and wish to congradulate you on your great builds and also same goes out to you Evan Jones.

Many Thanks to all Junkyard
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 11, 2007 12:51 AM
Junkjard,
I whish a lot of luck with the kit. Basically it is a street Honda 750 with fairing and some racing parts. I also have the kit in my collection. I wanted to do a conversion with the Heller Honda 750 and the fairing and racing parts from the MPC/Airfix kit. But no time until now...
Show us your progress!!

Uli
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 11, 2007 5:38 AM
Hmmmm.................... Honda 750 Dream,

That and the 750 Norton Commando have got to be the nearest two kits I have to a "grail".
I've been trying to get examples for many years and every time they appear they go for more than I can justify. They seem to have become collectors items which means they go for way more than I would be prepared to pay to actually build them.
A contentious line of thinking I know - But although I have more kits in my stash than I could build in two lifetimes every one is bought with the express intention of building it.

As an aside I've a build just coming to completion and shall post as soon as it's ready - An S4 Monster that I've kitbashed the 916 engine into - and I won't be doing that again in a hurry!!!

Just chatting guys....................speak again soon.

Andi.
  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Saturday, August 11, 2007 7:46 AM
Andi,
dreams sometimes can get true.
Heller has rereleased the Honda and the Laverda 750 with SFC option!!
Honda: Kit Nr.Heller80983 35.90 EUR at an austrian model dealer.
Try google or dream on...
Uli



  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: Arroyo Grande, CA
Posted by MojoDoctor on Saturday, August 11, 2007 8:40 AM
I've been watching this thread with great interest and taking notes. Lots of great info here. The Minicraft 1/16 Mercedes Sonder Kabriolet has a simple jig to 'lace' the wheels in that kit and uses one piece of wire wound around the hub and outer rims. Just another thought.
Thanks for all this good information guys!

I picked these up on eBay last year for about $30 each. The racer was started, but is very clean and will rebuild nicely. I will try to lace the wheels for these,..... one of these days!



Matt Good judgement is the result of experience, Experience is the result of poor judgement. Mark Twain

  • Member since
    May, 2008
Posted by Anonymous on Monday, August 13, 2007 9:51 AM
Uli...............

I've googled the bejeezas out of any combination I can think of to do with the Honda 750 by Heller, even their website carries no information. Might you have a link perhaps??

Apologies for hi-jacking your thread for a while Junkyard.

Andi.

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