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1929 Rolls Royce Phantom I Ascot Phaeton WIP

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  • Member since
    August, 2005
1929 Rolls Royce Phantom I Ascot Phaeton WIP
Posted by ericmac on Tuesday, August 28, 2012 8:58 PM

I am attempting to clear out my unfinished stock of models before getting into some of my new stuff. This one was a model I started 8 years ago and sort of just forgot about it. I wanted something new for a show in August and figured this was not too far away. Wrong. As I went along I remembered all the problems that had held up this build in the first place. The biggest offenders is the need to have a satin aluminum finish on the top of the body and the hood. I had also changed the rear fenders, reshaped the front fenders and completely reconfigured the doors. Then I forgot that I had done all of that. So...I resprayed the body only to peel the paint off in little specks. Then I sanded it all over again and got sanding marks all over. I am FINALLY starting to come back the other way. In the mean time I bought another Rolls kit so I would have a new chassis and new chrome, I repainted and dull coated the interior and flocked the carpeting. And ....here you see what is done and re-done so far. So much for a quickie finish it up project.

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by sjordan on Tuesday, September 04, 2012 11:00 AM

What kit is that?

  • Member since
    January, 2005
  • From: Canberra, Australia
Posted by aussiemuscle308 on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 6:44 PM

it's an interesting subject and i'm interested to see it progress.

My Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/87459383@N07/albums

  • Member since
    March, 2011
  • From: South Central Pa.
Posted by CarGuy1963 on Wednesday, September 12, 2012 10:26 PM

The paint looks great. Good luck with the rest of this build.

Its only plastic until you add imagination! CG63.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by sjordan on Saturday, September 15, 2012 12:11 PM

I don't know if you've seen this, but there are some great reference shots here...

www.theautocollections.com/index.cfm

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Monday, September 17, 2012 12:47 PM

Hi Guys,

I have done some work on the car but have not gotten down to photographing it. That site with the reference shots helps, particularly under the hood. It seems like every one of these things was different so having a place to start will help. I will get more photos (hopefully of better quality) up soon.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 6:51 AM

So I have finally gotten some more work done on this and photographed it. I noticed I missed a question from an earlier posting. The kit is the Monogram 1931 Rolls Royce Phaeton. The Monogram kit is a Derby Phaeton and I wanted to build a model of the Gilmore Car Museums Ascot Phaeton. The biggest differences are in the fender lines and the door cut. The Ascot has a standard squared off door where the Derby has a half circle shape. Later I will post the differences. At one point I started a Derby Phaeton as well but decided I had better stick to one project at a time. Without further ado,

The dashboard

i247.photobucket.com/.../139_0636_zps4d710e50.jpg

The passenger side of the engine

i247.photobucket.com/.../139_0638_zpse7d7fde2.jpg

The driver's side of the engine

i247.photobucket.com/.../139_0637_zps0f66ad8f.jpg

Thanks for looking.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by sjordan on Wednesday, September 19, 2012 12:13 PM

I found pictures of the Gilmore Ascot, and that's a beautiful car. Love the shiny metal bonnet, etc. Also found some other Ascot and engine shots, and the kit engine sure looks more like a Phantom II than a Phantom I. Here's what I found...

www.mad4wheels.com/.../model.asp

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Friday, September 21, 2012 6:57 AM

I agree that the kit engine is probably wrong...in several ways. You are right. Probably a P-II. However, this was supposed to be a quick, not-so-involved build between bigger projects. As always seems to happen, it has become one of the bigger projects itself. I plan to make the car "pretty close" to the Gilmore car with perhaps a bit of artistic license applied. Nothing done last night but it is supposed to rain this weekend...we'll see.

Thanks for the links guys. They have helped.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Monday, October 01, 2012 9:17 PM

I got out to the Gilmore museum yesterday and had a chance to look over the car. As S.Jordan noted, the car has a very different engine than the kit. I have decided to stay the course as this was supposed to be a bit of a stress reliever model and not a perfect replica. I decided it will be a good model inspired by the Gilmore car, rather than a perfect model of the car itself.

The engine details coming together. I was surprised there was so much brass under the hood of this one. Lots of aluminum too.

A roughed out interior making progress.

As always thanks for looking.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Sunday, October 07, 2012 8:49 AM

Here is a bit more progress. You can sort of see in this first mock up how the car will look when it is complete. Lots more details to add but it is finally starting to look like a car.

As always thanks for looking.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by sjordan on Sunday, October 07, 2012 12:30 PM

Great color scheme, looks like another winner.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Tuesday, November 27, 2012 9:25 PM

This is going to look like two steps forward and three steps back but the last mockup was only that, a mock-up. I have pulled the body/fender assembly back off the chassis and added a lot of wiring and other detail painting. I think I am finally ready for final assembly. As you may note this build is taking me a while. In the true confessions department, I just turned 48 and have been dealing with a two fold problem. First was simply denial, second, I simply could not see the stupid thing. So...I bought a pair of 2X magnifying cheaters and GEE WHIZ, I can see where the paint brush is going again. So, without further ado, some real progress on the Rolls.

Engine detail including the wiring that has been driving me crazy. It is a dual ignition strait six and a real brute to wire. On the acutal car the wiring goes through a loom up to the engine and the wires are concealed under a cap over the distrubutor. Admittedly this is not the best photo but you get the idea.

The other side of the engine, Note the spark plug wires are a period correct brown. On the real car they are black but just disappear against the black engine block. I asked myself why add detail I can't see? So they are period correct but not right for the car. There will be more artistic liberties as I go.

The nearly completed chassis.

Thanks as always for looking.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    March, 2006
  • From: Spring, Tx
Posted by modelcarjr on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 4:21 AM

Really making progress, Eric!  I would have no idea how to detail and build these old cars but I agree with you on the detail that it is better to ba able to see it than to remain absolutely true to the replica and that is what I often do. I think its really the right thing to do when building in this smaller scale!  Nice job so far! Cool Thumbs Up

If you cannot have a good time, what kinda time can you have? JR

Next on the bench:  Another 1970 Hemi 'Cuda, 1958 Chevy Impala, 1987 Buick GNX, 1950 Chevy Pick-up, Indy Reynard, 1965 Corvette, probably not in this order.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by sjordan on Wednesday, November 28, 2012 11:57 AM

Lots of color choices for plug wires of that era - yellow, red, etc., with black stripes at an angle.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Monday, December 10, 2012 8:57 PM

It is going slowly but what a difference it makes to have it sitting on its wheels! I don't know what it is about model cars (or real ones for that matter) but once the wheels are under it progress seems to happen quickly. Maybe its because it starts to really look like a car that way. Without further ado, here is the Rolls sitting on its wheels.

I selected the wide whitewalls after some soul searching about this.

Personally I prefer the looks of CCCA Classics on blackwalls, My own 1:1 Classic has them This car was different. It has a lot of black on the lower portion of the car and the wheels sort of just disappeared under the car without the whitewalls. So what we have here is a very rough mock up with most of the major components in place. I intend to have the car displayed most of the time with the top down so this is sort of what the finished model will look like. As always, thanks for looking.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    November, 2006
  • From: Belmont MA
Posted by nells250 on Thursday, December 13, 2012 12:13 PM

the engine looks great so far!

  • Member since
    June, 2015
Posted by dimaxion on Friday, December 21, 2012 2:04 PM

Great progress . The tire argument is in the eye of the beholder . These old Custom Built High Dollar Prized Possessions came with the tires the Customer asked (and Paid) for . In Europe ,  especially England , not WW's . The roads were too messy and these White Wall Tires made  the gems look not so pretty . I've been corrected about this detail many times through Internet Intercontinental viewers on Model Car Sites .  I live in the US and I build like I live around Improved Roads (read : paved) in the day . As I would have it built for me .  Or like Museum Pieces . Your choice as you please .     Thanx ..

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Thursday, December 27, 2012 12:10 PM

I agree with you Dimaxion about the English cars with white wall tires. They just don't look right. On the other hand, this is NOT an English car. It is a Springfield (Massachusets) Rolls that lived in California for a long time before coming here to Michigan to become one of Donald Gilmore's first Rolls Royces. After Donald died, the Gilmore Car Museum restored it and used the wide whites because all of the early documentation of the car showed it with white walls. I debated long and hard but decided to go ahead and keep it as the real car is today and as it always has been. It is, as you mentioned, and has been for 40 years, a museum piece. Part of why I am interested in this particular car will be spelled out when I write the "its done" story, which I hope can be accomplished in the next 4 days! Otherwise I will have completed but 2 builds in 2012-my lowest ever.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    November, 2006
  • From: Belmont MA
Posted by nells250 on Friday, January 04, 2013 1:59 PM

ericmac

...On the other hand, this is NOT an English car. It is a Springfield (Massachusets) Rolls that lived in ...

I thought Springfield cars had horizontal slats in the grille?  Or was that only with older cars?

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Monday, January 07, 2013 7:33 PM

That was only the older cars. Later PI's and the PII's had the vertical slats. So here is the progress on this one. I recall years ago trying to get one of these together and having real problems with the way the hoods fit. I thought that was a problem with in-experience and with the fit of the fenders. What I finally figured out is the problem is with the exhaust manifild. Of course I only found that out after a point of no return. I think the only thing to do now, because I did a REALLY good job gluing the manifold on, it to cut the one off that you see in this photo, drill out larger holes in the side of the engine and seat a new manifold in place of the old one, perhaps 1/16th of an inch deeper, hoping that I don't screw up the fender in the process. May the force be with me.

A detail I particularly like about this build is the tonneau windshield in the back seat. I placed it in the folded position because I wanted to build this model with the windshield folded flat. (Sorry for the cruddy photo. I did not realize it was so bad until it was blown up.)

All of the chrome was stripped on this model and I used Alclad II in its placce. I think it was a big improvement.

I am almost done. Maybe another week....Thanks as always for looking.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
Posted by ericmac on Saturday, January 19, 2013 8:14 PM

The story

So here is the back story on my newly completed project, the 1929 Rolls Phantom I Ascot Phaeton. When I was a teenager in the late 1970’s I got very interested in building a complete set of every CCCA Classic model kit available. I started with the ’41 Lincoln, moved to the ’30 Packards, then the Duesenbergs and finally the Rolls. Keep in mind, I did not know this was an incomplete list at the time. I managed to get the ’31 Rolls Roadster but the ’31 Rolls Phaeton eluded me.  One day in February I went with my dad to the local antique auto club winter swap meet. There was the Rolls Phaeton, under the arm of a kid coming out of the room where the “toy guy” normally was set up. I literally up-ended his display of models looking for the elusive Rolls but alas he had sold the last one. I was crushed. Fast forward to that August when my uncle Jerry knocked on my bedroom door. He presented me with the Rolls Phaeton which he found at a local Meijer store. I could not have been more excited. I cleared my desk and set to work building the model. Inside about a week I was looking at what was certainly the best model I had ever built.  Here is that model prior to my embarking on an ambitious restoration.

Fast forward to about 10 years ago. The local children’s choir needed an old car for the Christmas Parade and asked if I could provide one. My Model T was under restoration at the time so I called the Gilmore Car Museum where I am a frequent volunteer and asked if I could have a car. They said sure, what do you want? “Something flashy” was my reply. They provided me with their 1929 Rolls Royce Phantom I Ascot Phaeton, the Springfield, MA car. Since I had an empty passenger seat I asked if my dad would like to copilot the car through the parade. He did.  It was a cold but sunny early November day when the parade took place. While it was chilly with the top up, we found the car rather pleasant with the top down so we could soak up a little bit of the sunshine. During the parade, we could not help ourselves; we folded the windshield flat and folded the tonneau windshield down for maximum open air effect. We even drove the car a little ways this way but the blast of air was too much at 50 MPH so we erected both windshields for the ride back to the museum.

Along the way, my Uncle Jerry was among the parade audience and yelled out “look who stole the Rolls!” He took a photo, long gone, of my dad and I riding in the Rolls along the parade route.

After the ride in the 1:1 Rolls I was so taken with the car I had to have a model of it. I took my old Rolls Phaeton model and dismantled what I could of it. Then I changed the rear fenders and puttied the doors closed as their shape was wrong. I had another brand new Rolls Kit (having since found the miracle of ebay for model purchases…and thus realizing this was not a rare kit at all) for a parts doner. I know, I probably should have just built the new one but that would have defeated the purpose of restoring the model my uncle gave me. What you see here is the completed model of the ’29 Rolls. It is not by any means a perfect model but offers a good representation of the car my dad and I rode in while nicely restoring as much of that original model as I could. The people in the car represent me behind the wheel, dad in the passenger seat, the women and a child from the Kalamazoo Children’s Chorus and my uncle photographing the car as it passes by the crowd along the parade route.

The model

Obviously it is a Monogram 1931 Rolls Royce Phantom II Derby Phaeton. To convert the car to an Ascot Phaeton I puttied over the doors and cut them in more of a square shape. The rear fenders were removed and replaced with a pair from an MPC ’27 Lincoln Phaeton, which have much more rounded shapes. The engine was wired and plumbed though I decided against changing around manifolding and so on that would better represent a Phantom I Rolls engine. That just did not sound like fun so I did not do it. Modeling is supposed to be fun right?

The project started about 8-9 years ago and got sidetracked by other projects. This allowed me to learn that if you are dissatisfied with old Testors enamel and spray new Testors enamel over the top, a splendid ripple effect can be achieved. A whole bunch of purple power cleaner later and the body was ready for a second attempt. This time I first sprayed 2 coats of primer, then masked the top of the body, sprayed the black, then masked the black and sprayed Rust-Oleum bright aluminum over the top. I am very pleased with the effect. The interior was flocked with material I got from Michaels and the tonneau windshield came from a ’27 Lincoln Phaeton. The bumpers were cut apart in order to make the correct bumpers for this car. All of the chrome was stripped and re-plated using Alclad II. All of the wheels were stripped using the purple power cleaner. I shaved down all of the spokes for every wheel and carefully applied THIN coats of black paint. No primer was used on them to avoid paint build-up. The biggest problem during final assembly was a poorly fitting hood and radiator shell. I repaired the latter by shimming it with a couple very small pieces of plastic scraps and then carefully sanding it until the hood fit properly. I am not 100% satisfied but it is better. I am not 100% happy with the finish of one of the rear fenders and there are a few boo-boos elsewhere. Despite that, this was a very satisfying model to build and I think a pretty good tribute to my dad and my uncle. I am pleased to say both are alive and well so they can enjoy the final product.

All comments are welcome. Thanks for looking.

Eric

Why can't I stand to slap these things together like I did as a teenager? On the bench 1930 Packard 734 Speedster Victoria, 1932 Duesenberg J Judkins Coupe, 1934 Ford Cabriolet, 1926 Ford Model Ts-the complete set of all six bodystyles.

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