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1928 Lockhart Stutz Blackhawk Special LSR Car 1:10 scale DONE!

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  • Member since
    August, 2017
1928 Lockhart Stutz Blackhawk Special LSR Car 1:10 scale DONE!
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 7:58 AM

Hi all, joined recently, and introduced myslef. :-)

I explained there how I got be be working on this project.

Firstly, its already taking WAY longer than I anticipated... but I guess thats how it goes.

Heres are two great articles on this incredible story.

https://oldmachinepress.com/2013/02/23/lockhart-stutz-black-hawk-lsr-car/

http://www.automobiliac.com/automobiliac/tag/stutz-black-hawk

I guess Im not allowed to post pics yet. :-)

Dale

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:24 AM

 

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:28 AM

Using as many photos and images I could find, combined with some dimension data (length, track etc) I started building up the car in CAD.

This car was one of the first vehicles to be designed in a wind tunnel, and to use intercoolers - the radiators exposed on the hood.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:33 AM

WEEK 1

CAD: Spent about 50 or so hours on the CAD work



  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:36 AM

WEEK 2

PRINTING AND SANDING
Ive got an FDM printer, so the parts have striation lines, and require a fair amount of smoothing.



Around 50 parts in total, including the driver.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:46 AM

THE WEEKEND

So this was the part I was really looking forward to, and that is prepping the parts for paint and assembly. Ive been reading up on all the paint techniques posted up here in these forums. (which is what led me to sign up here). It started out well... but then I hit some issues :-D



Joined up the two main body sections, and started filling with Tamiya Putty.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 9:57 AM

... and heres where I had an unexpected bad result.

The Tamiya paint (never used it before) - white - TS26 does not cover well. On top of that, as I discovered, these paints made for scale models are designed to lay down super thin, and not cover small details. This is great when youve got a nicely made injection mold or resin kit, but its exactly what you dont need on a roughly printed 3D part.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 10:06 AM

Unexpected (bad) result #2

That night I figured I can just layer on fresh putty. 

As I said, Ive never used these scale modelling products before, and was starting to really mess up !



As I spread the putty on, it started reacting with the paint.
Did I buy an incompatable putty / paint combination?
Tamiya Putty white
Tamiya TS26

Only one thing left to do, sand it all off.
  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 10:19 AM

I noticed that the Tamiya TS-30 Silver that I purchased covered REALLY well. So figured I'd give it a base coat of the silver, and layer the white over that. After all, the white paint on the original car went over the aluminum. Before painting I really did a lot of prep work on the body, wet sanding and filling to as smooth a surface as I could. But it still wasnt giving me the results I wanted.



At this point I started playing with the idea of making the car all aluminum, instead of white. Still not sure. But most likely will go with the white to keep it historicaly accurate.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 10:24 AM

So, Sunday afternoon, after spending an entire weekend wrestling with this thing, I relented and defaulted to the processes Im more familiar with... Putting down a layer of XTC-3D on the parts. (which is like a two part resin self levelling coating).

Thats how far Ive got with this. Next weekend Ill be wet sanding down the new surface and painting it with standard hardware rattle can paint.

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Monday, August 21, 2017 11:41 AM

Welcome to the forum, Dale.

I am very impressed with your project. I am familiar with the story behind this car; excellent subject matter. You have some excellent progress there, despite the trials and tribulations. Keep at it. It's all good experience and you WILL get there.

If it's white you want, then stick with the white. Laying on a thin skim of Bondo or epoxy putty and then sanding smooth will sort the surface striations from the printing process. Be sure to use primer as a base coat to check for surface imperfections before you paint. A high build primer might be a good suggestion for your project. High build primer can hide surface detail which shouldn't be a problem for your project, but it can also act as a fine filler which work for you.

Primer will also get the whole part in one colour before you lay down the paint.

Your printed parts look fantastic. This is going to be an incredible model. I have a small bit of experience working with 3D printed models (submarines) from a basic printer, so I appreciate the issues with getting a smooth paintable surface.

I think you are doing great work here. Keep at it and ask questions when you need. It is a very interesting project and I am keen to see it come together.

Power matters in the straights.
Lightness matters everywhere. - Colin Chapman

Trevor

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Monday, August 21, 2017 3:12 PM

Thank you for the warm welcome and the kind words Trevor!
Im really excited to get this done and accomplished.

  • Member since
    May, 2017
  • From: Douglas AZ>
Posted by littletimmy on Monday, August 21, 2017 5:52 PM

Man thats a lot of work for a one-of-a-kind model !!! And a LOT of work to get it the way you wanted it !

My hat is of to you for tackling such an interesting subject. nice job !

Dont worry about the thumb print.... paint it rust and call it battle damage

  • Member since
    January, 2005
  • From: sunny Sydney, Australia
Posted by nottheband on Monday, August 21, 2017 7:03 PM

G'day Dale, and congratulations on your very impressive CAD work, you really know your craft.  She is going to be a top class model when completed.  I would suggest applying a primer coat first, but I'll let other more experienced and skilful painters advise you on their recommendations for finishing processes.  I'm looking forward to seeing more.  Cheers

Steve

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 8:14 AM

Thanks for the encouragement guys. And yes, primer makes a lot of sense! 

  • Member since
    March, 2017
  • From: Brighton England
Posted by Spencer Mopar Fan on Tuesday, August 22, 2017 1:11 PM
what a beautiful vehicle ! I had to giggle at the wonderful irony that a 89 year old car is being done with such modern methods . I wonder what the original builders would think looking on a screen at a 3D scan of their efforts . Magnificent work .
TnT
  • Member since
    September, 2016
Posted by TnT on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:50 AM

That is too cool. The model and your work. I think dupli color has a nice filler primer. Keep it up.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Wednesday, August 23, 2017 1:45 PM

Spencer, it is a beautiful car isnt it? I mean, to put it into context, look at cars from that period. 

 
Did you know that it had an ice box in the front to help cool the motor :-D
 
As for CAD work, Ive only done the most superficial work, required to build this model. But yes, Im sure the engineers of the time would marvel at our tech today. The same way we couldn't imagine what its going to be like in 2100.
 
Thanks Tnt, yeah I got some filler primer today and did a quick test earlier, and I think this is definitely going to smooth out my problems.
  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Thursday, August 24, 2017 10:31 AM

UPDATE

MR LOCKHART

Stylized the look of the driver based off inspiration of posters of the era.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Thursday, August 24, 2017 10:32 AM

High build primer directly onto the printed parts, and first light sanding.
Curious how this technique is going to come out.




  • Member since
    February, 2008
Posted by justmike on Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:18 AM

I'm watching this with total fascination and no idea how its getting done. I have a rough idea how it works from some television shows I've watched, but its something else to see this end result. Painting prep is the most important thing, as you know, so don't let it beat you!  lol

Feelings are like scents: The more they are analyzed, the worse they smell.
  • Member since
    March, 2017
  • From: Brighton England
Posted by Spencer Mopar Fan on Thursday, August 24, 2017 11:36 AM
I had a look online for more photos of the original car , and saw pictures of the 1970's Blackhawk . Obviously not the same designer .LOL . I very rarely feel nauseous when looking at a car , but that one had me at the verge of blowing major chunks . I eventually ran out of negative superlatives and found a safe place to hide physically & mentally !!!! . I spent hours looking up " The pretty one " and found a LSR special model page . There is a plastic kit of this car so my admiration for your dedication & computer skills has now risen even higher ! its currently at 14/10 ! ! ....No , I'm not good at maths either !
  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Temecula, CA
Posted by openwheel on Thursday, August 24, 2017 8:37 PM

Hi Dale,

I'm really impressed with your project. I happen to be in the middle of building the American Racing Miniatures repop of the Chris Etzel Blackhawk kit. Unfortunately, I had a paint issue too, so I have to reshoot the body.

I wanted to show you something I plan to display with my model that I think you'll appreciate. It's a piece my dad gave me many years ago. 

 

End Cap

 It looks to me like it's this part here, unmachined.

Best of luck on this great project. I'll be watching!

 

-Art

Laski Scale Specialties - Pro Tech | MAD | Studio 27

My Fotki

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Friday, August 25, 2017 8:30 AM

justmike

I'm watching this with total fascination and no idea how its getting done. I have a rough idea how it works from some television shows I've watched, but its something else to see this end result. Painting prep is the most important thing, as you know, so don't let it beat you!  lol

 

Hey Mike, yup Im learing fast that there is no room for shortcuts in the paint prep work!

As for the process, its fairly straightforward. Geometry is built in a 3D application. This "part" is then exported as a solid body object.  

The part is imported into Slicer software which slices up the part in layers, and adds removable support geometry if applicable. The output from this application is standard G-code, the same data used for CNC milling etc.

The printer then interprets the G-code to build up the part layer by layer.

A low tech system like the one Im using here (FDM) Filament Deposition Modelling is what creates the striation lines Im fighting with - each striation line is a layer of deposited plastic. 

More sophisticated Laser Sintering Machines (SLS) build up much smoother parts with no need for removable support material using more sophisticated materials like nylon, or metal. The same applies to resin based printers.

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Friday, August 25, 2017 8:34 AM

Spencer Mopar Fan
I had a look online for more photos of the original car , and saw pictures of the 1970's Blackhawk . Obviously not the same designer .LOL . I very rarely feel nauseous when looking at a car , but that one had me at the verge of blowing major chunks . I eventually ran out of negative superlatives and found a safe place to hide physically & mentally !!!! . I spent hours looking up " The pretty one " and found a LSR special model page . There is a plastic kit of this car so my admiration for your dedication & computer skills has now risen even higher ! its currently at 14/10 ! ! ....No , I'm not good at maths either !



That was an unfortunate name choice for that car by Stutz for sure. Absolutely nothing in common in any way on any level with this LSR car.

Send the link to the model page you found! I know theres a 1:43 and a 1:25 model that were in production at one point ?

  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Friday, August 25, 2017 8:38 AM

openwheel

Hi Dale,

I'm really impressed with your project. I happen to be in the middle of building the American Racing Miniatures repop of the Chris Etzel Blackhawk kit. Unfortunately, I had a paint issue too, so I have to reshoot the body.

I wanted to show you something I plan to display with my model that I think you'll appreciate. It's a piece my dad gave me many years ago. 

It looks to me like it's this part here, unmachined.

Best of luck on this great project. I'll be watching!

 -Art



Wow! That is special! Thanks for sharing!
Looks like its a part from Frank Lockharts patented intercooler system?
Youre very fortunate to have that for sure. :-)


Look at the two Miller V8's sitting there, not yet put together. Heres the finished product:




Is this the kit you have?




  • Member since
    December, 2008
  • From: Temecula, CA
Posted by openwheel on Friday, August 25, 2017 2:56 PM

I think it is probably a cam retainer, but not positive.

Yep, that is the kit I'm building. It's extremely well cast. It should have been a quick, simple build, but Murphy always gets involved!

Laski Scale Specialties - Pro Tech | MAD | Studio 27

My Fotki

  • Member since
    March, 2017
  • From: Brighton England
Posted by Spencer Mopar Fan on Saturday, August 26, 2017 10:54 AM
Prototype , here's the page I started at ( I THINK ! ) http://www.lsrinmin.co.uk/land_speed_record_1927_1928.html
  • Member since
    August, 2017
Posted by Prototype on Sunday, August 27, 2017 3:39 PM

Spencer Mopar Fan
http://www.lsrinmin.co.uk/land_speed_record_1927_1928.html



Thats a pretty comprehensive list youve put together there! Very inspiring. Wow, didnt realize you were such a LSR fan. How's that Bugatti? <3


UPDATE
SATURDAY
PAINT PREP COMPLETE 

Lost count how times I layered primer and flatted it down. But Im happy with the result. 

  • Member since
    February, 2008
Posted by justmike on Monday, August 28, 2017 1:18 AM

Sweeeet!  That is one smooth body. You must be happy to be done with all of that sanding and primering, repeat a dozen times.  lol

Feelings are like scents: The more they are analyzed, the worse they smell.

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