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TROGer thoughts. 34 or 29 PU ?

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  • Member since
    November, 2017
TROGer thoughts. 34 or 29 PU ?
Posted by Gluecipher on Monday, January 22, 2018 3:53 AM

Ive been thinkin of what kit im using as basis of my attempt to do something in the vein of Trog'er. You know, the race of gentlemen-vehicle.

I thought first that im gonna do it from 29 roadster...but think i cant do anything as cool or even much different out of it, and it would look like ive copied a lot from other/s already build as models.

So, while i was reading through real events rules, and if i got it right, there is an option to use pickups too;

 

"Sorry, no pick up trucks or sedans unless they are heavily modified competition style race vehicles, ie; (Setback engines, heavy chops, extreme channel, major speed equipment)."

But then;

-Theres something i would asks from you if anyone happens to know. Theres no mention about is it allowed to alter the wheelbase with suicide perch, or by switching the rear axles place from back/under/behond the spring ?

Drag/Rail class allows clearly wheelbase alternations;

"All entries must use stock model T or A frames only. You can not lengthen frames over the stock Ford Motor Company length, you may shorten if you wish. Wheel base or front and rear axles may move or be altered in either direction."

So if and when i want to build either 4cyl or Flat V8 class race car, without making it fall in to Drag/Rail racer ( which prohibits bodies except tiny firewall. ) do i walk the common rule...

"If it is Not denied, its obviously allowed."

You tell me ?

During last hour i've sketched a bit of how i would easilyConfused modify a Ford 29 or 34 pickup to follow the rules but if i only knew can i add few "welded" steel slabs in upper front of original front crossmember to extend the wheelbase and drop the ground clearance without using dropped front axle. In my eyes it would not be extending the frame (rails) at all. 

Btw, do you think its allowed to fix the frame? I have one Revell '29 rat rods frame, that is missing some 1/2" of its rear. Do i need to build the missing part to factory looks from styrene or can i alter the wheelbase/height/ground clearance by z'ing it?

I've though about doing AMT '34 Ford Pickup, with either flathead from Revell's 50 pickup ( with ardun heads as it still is seen as flathead,i think, since Riley ohv kits keep fourbanger as flattie) or using the AMT Ford '53 flathead ( with arduns or if i find, some flathead hi perf heads)...i have also flathead from Ertl '49 merc to start from...but the gearboxes in them,i think the pickups have manual but Mercs is auto?

Other option is to use Revell 29 pickup, with Riley ohv converted fourbanger or the flatties mentioned above. It has easy to chop body compared to 34 which is not tough to chop either...

Well, i'll waite until tomorrow and then startYes

 

  • Member since
    November, 2017
Posted by Gluecipher on Monday, January 22, 2018 11:17 AM

Well...

That under there is much where i am taking my interpretation of rules, i decided. Bed might disappear but i used it to keep my vintage-photoshop intact .

I might chop it more,lower it more, even use a track nose but i wanted to show you my idea this way as by writing it might give different thoughts.

I was playing with sort of a clumsy teardrop/boat tail rear piece,that covers the engine and whole rear behind the cabin but in any case, this must fill the rule of "engine set back" and i did not see anything saying i can not move cabin forward. That arrangement leaves plenty of room for flathead-8, and since the cabin is both chopped and channeled, the driver would sit in quite cramped position but this way, he now has more room for legs as he can push em kind of through the firewall,under the hood. I think that weight transfer still would be like it is needed, as the engine and tranny might weight more than old timer ,skinny driver in a lot smaller and lighter cabin than the stock cabin is.

I wonder would they allow fixed rear axle with zero springs?  That might be away from rear weight, but it would disable need for driveshaft between tranny and rear axle. I recall ive seen Trog racer with no rear springs but i might remember wrong.

 

 

What say you?

 

  • Member since
    November, 2017
Posted by Gluecipher on Monday, January 22, 2018 12:17 PM

 Scaning through old racing pics, just like modern days vintage/perioid correct rides pics, i see all sortsa complicated modifications to improve weight transfer and aerodynamics, done in various ways, some have very nice arcs,bubble-like flow, some have cones made of several flat triangular sheet metal pieces and such...and i cant but wonder this would Not have been possible back then? 

Sure, someone might notice this is starting to feel like its closer to Belly Tankers ? But this still resembles mass produced car and could be proven to originate from one, in real life. This has pretty much stock frame, with engine mounts added, but surely its allowed to add em since engine setback is almost mandatory or encouraged to do,to get your pickup in the race.

I can tilt the window more aerodynamic ,chop it more compared to paper sketch, to make it more racing purpose built...and just to be able to call it a pickup and get it passed to raceWink

 

If the guy had no other car to turn in to racer, he just went and fabricated the pickup and as a son of a lawyer he tried to get around the rules, just like some did by havin' methanol tank hidden inside gas tank...

 

  • Member since
    March, 2017
  • From: Brighton England
Posted by Spencer Mopar Fan on Monday, January 22, 2018 9:00 PM

I really like where this is heading ( 30's era A/FX LOL ??) Even if its outside the parameters of the TROG rules IT SHOULD BE BUILT ! 

Almost a cab over , but not quite . I wonder what "Jimmy Flintstones Resin bodies " have ...... 

  • Member since
    November, 2017
Posted by Gluecipher on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 2:04 AM

Spencer Mopar Fan

I really like where this is heading ( 30's era A/FX LOL ??) Even if its outside the parameters of the TROG rules IT SHOULD BE BUILT ! 

Almost a cab over , but not quite . I wonder what "Jimmy Flintstones Resin bodies " have ...... 

 

Well i think this might be bit like weird "30' - 40's Altered" but i am not very familiar on american class regulations and i think there werent nationally agreed rules yet back then? 

I really cant say this IS 100% by the book to comply with trog rules but i cant say it is Not by the book either. I mean people sure have been creative in motorsports since the day when first cars raced.

If im sticking to period gear etc as im trying, i think my car just might have be seen racing in the good old days, be it on the salts, asphalt or sandy strips.

Yeah, it is bit like COE gone Little Red Wagon or something, but personally i cant afford nor am i interested to just buy resin body as its not then so much my own creation nor uniqueYes

And yes, i Am building this, not just talk about it, and im keeping Trog as its guidelineWink

Would the "Odd Rod", legendary truck with two flatheads be allowed to race in any class or is it too new ? 

Bill Kenz's truck built in 1943-1944 during the war, ran in Bonneville in 1949 and went 140.95....).

 

"This is cab over!?"

"No its not,it has a functional hood between cabin and radiator frame,and the engine is allowed to be set back,and i did not see how much you can set it back. Engine never was under the cab...and if it was,imagine how easily i would have moved it towards the back then."

"This is middle engine now."

"Is that prohibited in some page ? And the engine is not in the middle if you measure...its only set back ."

"But cmon the body is moved forward..."

"Is that denied, and if, where? If some are allowed to move the seats place almost on top of rear diff or next to it, how can this be prohibited ?"

"Theres no bed and you call this a pickup huh?"

"Well theres several open,roofless cars as well as closed cabins,with nothing like bed, called commonly as pickup due to the fact that the cabin is from pickup model...just like mine is and sure,i can toss in a bed if you demand it. But demand it for all cars that carry pickup body then,not just for my car."

"Sorry, no pick up trucks or sedans unless they are heavily modified competition style race vehicles, ie; (Setback engines, heavy chops, extreme channel, major speed equipment)."

If mine has Rootes or Latham blown,possibly overhead valve converted flathead eight, moved back a bit more than most have,and it has channeled,chopped body etc it must fullfill those exceptions mentioned to make this pass even though its merely a boring potato hauler.

And i can always say theres few more clasrs to drive in the Trog, and in reality,in past...i guess my truck could be raced easily. Imagine if someone finds a real truck, very much similar now, from dusty old barn, with boxes of photos etc proving it once ran in 30-40's era races...i bet nobody would ban it from racing now?

  BTW,

Ive seen some dreams of blower driven by driveshaft/rear axle.

 

  • Member since
    November, 2017
Posted by Gluecipher on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 7:45 AM

  • Member since
    November, 2017
Posted by Gluecipher on Tuesday, January 23, 2018 1:35 PM

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