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Building The 1/25 Turd...a 72 Nova street car...

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  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Monday, August 12, 2019 2:56 PM

Well, the 1:1 project has finally been fired up, and it's just a little rowdy, lol...I'd LOVE to post the video for y'all, but can't figure out how to...programming and testing next Sunday...best part is, that means my time will be freed up, and I can get back onto the 1:25 version in earnest...


 

 

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Saturday, July 27, 2019 12:59 AM

 

Evenin' everyone...The 1/25 Nova model project has been on a short hiatus for the past few weeks as we have been re-assembling, re-plumbing, and re-wiring the subject of my build...The fresh 565 BBC, custom Lemons Headers, FTI 'Glide, Pro-Torque converter, custom radiator & electric fan are all new mechanicals for the car, so it is very much like building a full scale model: fit - modify - refit - remodify - final fit...We are also installing an ARC 12-switch panel with satellite switch panels in the engine compartment (for valve adjustment & tuning), a RacePak datalogger system and LCD digital dash, and an MSD Grid controller...all the new electronics, modifications to the fuel and cooling system wiring, pretty much predicated removing all of the wiring I did three years ago, and starting fresh...really, the only system that will not require a complete rewiring is the original equipment lighting circuits (it is a street car after all, lol), which I'll have to integrate with the new switch panel and it's fuse/relay panel...

 

I haven't had much time on the bench, but I have made a little bit of haphazard progress here and there...I've been working on a template to bend/build a 1:25 scale, ten gallon aluminum fuel cell with sump that will mount in the trunk (along with the fuel pump and filter setup I'll need to fab), discovered that annealed brass tubing bends MUCH more satisfactorily than non-annealed tubing, and am still trying to develop a bending method that will give me more satisfactory results...the major problem I'm having trouble over-coming is repeatability: I need to create several mirror-image parts for the rollcage and front clip, not to mention the front control arms...many of the aftermarket parts I've ordered for the build have been rolling in...I now have about 80% of the drivetrain collected, including the Fab9 rear kit with PE disc brakes and 3d printed calipers...those items in of themselves will wind up being little "models" on their own...here are some of the things that have come in, the parts they are replacing, and the planned modifications they'll get to more closely replicate the real thing (also pictured if I have them):

 

1) FAB9 Rear, sourced from Futurattraction...I need to remove the "rectangular" bracing, and re-brace it with round tubular styrene to match the bracing on the new rear we put in...the rear PE rotors will need to be replaced with ones that more closely replicate the TBM Revolution brakes that we installed three years ago...I need to get the correct rear rim setup before I can begin on this...

2) Monoleafs/CalTracs, sourced from 3D Model Specialties, these monoleaf sets will be cut apart and spliced together to make split monoleafs with CalTracs...then I can fab a set of rear sliders for them...

3) Front Tires, sourced from Futurattraction...these are a nice looking copy of a Goodyear DS2 w/o sidewall detailing...

4) Rear Tires: from Fireball Modelworks, Mickey Thompson 315/60R15 Drag Radial, with amazing sidewall detailing...I'm building the model with these instead of the MT 10.5 Pro Bracket Radials we'll be starting this season with, as the Nova is set up to clear the 315s (if we need them), and I can't find a source for the 10.5s...

5) Weld V-Series Front & Rear Wheels w/beadlocks: from Futurattraction, these are a beautiful aluminum & PE rendition of the wheels, but through my own inattention, the rears are too wide for the Fireball Modelworks MT315s...I'm looking into custom-machined rim sleeves to fit the tires, and will still use the PE centers and beadlocks...they should look amazing once they're detailed and assembled...

6) Basic "Brodix" Big Block Chevy: from 3d Model Specialties, I still have a few more bits and pieces to collect (and fabricate) for it before I can begin it's prep, assembly, and detailing...

7) Short tail 'Glide: from 3d Model Specialties, I'm going to need to fab a flexplate and converter, (there doesn't seem to be anything out there remotely like the ProTorque bolt-together we'll be using this season) along with a trans overflow recovery tank and transbrake solenoid...

 

 

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Monday, June 24, 2019 11:28 PM
Not too much progress on the 1:25 project this week...got the second mini tub fitted, and removed the gas tank (along with the "box" Revell had it sitting on)...now I need to create a correctly contoured trunk floor...although the fuel cell, fuel pump/filter setup, and their mounting frame will cover much of it in the trunk, the underside has hydro-stamped detail that I'll need to try replicating...thankfully, there are plenty of pictures of trunk floorpan repair panels available online that should help with this, despite the "artistic license" Revell took with the model...the pic below shows the now fitted mini tubs on the chassis pan I'll end up finishing and using for final assembly (once all the mods are completed) next to an unmodified one...
 
 
On the other hand, the 1:1 project (my subject) is finally on deck...we picked it up from Ron Rhodes's shop (Rhodes Custom Auto) last weekend, and got her washed and into the shop this Saturday to begin assembly...the white board is at 20 items and growing, lol...the pics below are at Rhodes's shop, and show the Carl's Aluminum Works wing (finally installed) that we won a couple years ago at a race in Kansas, the custom 'chute mount, and the positively enormous cowl hood the car's owner went with (I have to figure out how to replicate those Quicklatches)...The front bumper/airdam is currently fiberglass, and will probably stay black this season, and yes, the rear bumper is also fiberglass...
 
We stripped out most of the (now unneeded) wiring, along with all of the Autometer instrumentation...I'll begin the MSD Power Grid, Racepak logger & dash, and ARC switch panels installation and wiring updates next weekend...I got to sneak lots of detail pics that I'll need for fabbing stuff on the 1:25 project...the last thing we got done this weekend was the first test fit of the new bullet: it looks gigantic compared to the 421 and 423 smallblocks that lived there for the last five years...
 
 
Next weekend we'll probably get the couple of minor clearance issues worked out (the oil drain back fittings from the Big Chief heads are super tight to the firewall), the Lemons headers fitted, and the car majorly rewired and plumbed...hopefully we can get the FTI 'Glide in, and get the driveshaft measurements made and ordered too...We need to RACE!!!
  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Monday, June 10, 2019 11:38 PM

Well, here's a little "how I'm doing it" regarding the 1:25 Nova's mini tubs...

The very first thing you want to do is RESEARCH!!! I surfed the 'net for a week
or so, watching videos, and saving pictures from multiple sources for
reference...access to your 1:1 subject would be ideal, but in my case, that really
isn't possible, since the owner of my subject vehicle has no clue I'm doing this
(and the Nova's mini tubs and other upgrades are just being finished up now)...

I measured the width of the Revell 69 COPO kit's rear frame rails where they
meet the floor pan's underside (being an injection molded part, the rails are not
"square" but widen at that juncture), and cut some strips of masking tape to
match...then, using one of those cheap LED miniature flashlights, I shined the light
through the chassis pan and laid the masking tape to match the inner edge of the
frame rails, providing a "guide" for positioning the new wheel tub "extensions"
that I cut from one of the spare chassis pans I had sourced from Ebay...

Next, I laid some masking tape inside the floor pan's wheelhouse to provide a cut line,
leaving the outer wheelhouse behind...then, just like the first steps when doing a
1:1 mini tub, I removed the inner wheel house to the frame rail, leaving the outer
wheel house in place...I learned a couple of things regarding how much to trim out
removing the "stock" inner wheelhouse, the left side installation should be much cleaner, requiring less putty (I hope,lol
)...

Then, I colored the inside of the tub extension with a black Sharpie, laid it over
the opening I just cut, and scribed a rough cut line where the two wheel houses
should mate up...now it's a matter of file/sand/fit until the new inner wheel tub
fits correctly...I guess its probably time to buy some glues for this project, does anybody have recommendations?

The rear tires from Fireball Modelworks arrived early last week (MT Drag
Radials in 275/60-15 and 315/60-15), so now I can be absolutely sure I'm
building the tubs to fit the 315s, which the 1:1 car is being built for (although we are
going to start out with a 10.5 tire, which I haven't been able to source)...I can't
recommend the Fireball Modelworks tires highly enough: real rubber
(convincingly sticky too!), and excellent detailing, right down to the correct
"tread" and the major sidewall markings...I wish my phone could take an
acceptable picture of them...now I can make sure that the tire fit is correct as
I'm fitting the tubs...

Before I fill, and finish the mini tub installation (and repair the spot in the right
frame rail that I nipped with the chuck of my Dremel), I guess I'd better order
the FAB9 rear next, so that I can make the necessary frame rail mods for leaf spring
relocation, which will also require removal of the gas tank (on the 1:1, we removed
the stock tank, and had a fuel cell/fuel pump installed into the trunk)...

 

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Thursday, June 06, 2019 11:59 PM

mmthrax & Bainford - thank you for the encouragement, it's definately a boost knowing peeps are watching...

So a quick update on this week's progress...my time at the bench each night has been pretty limited this week...I did a bit more research on mini-tubbing the 1:1 3rd Gen Novas, mainly to get a better feel for the minor frame rail modifications that it entails...I expect to have one side fit by the end of the weekend, and will post details then...

Moving along to another issue I need to figure out how to overcome...because the kit has a chassis pan, and an interior pan, cutting the doors open will leave the inner rocker, and the floor too high...perhaps more brainstorming is needed (suggestions are definately welcome), but right now I'm considering simply sanding the top of the chassis pan and the bottom of the interior floor pan until it aligns properly...hopefully it won't "break through" in the floor pan areas that are depressed for your feet...I think I'll go buy a cheap micrometer at Harbor Freight this weekend to see just how far I can sand without sanding through those areas...it'll also help me determine how far it needs to be dropped...this also may require extending the quarter window trim and kick panels to meet the floor...

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Thursday, June 06, 2019 11:24 AM

Looking good, nice work so far. You've got the right attitude to see this thing through.

Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
       - Antoine de Saint-Exepury

Trevor

  • Member since
    January, 2008
  • From: Plano (Dallas), Texas
Posted by mmthrax on Tuesday, June 04, 2019 12:35 PM

This is cool.  You have my attention.

I will be following along.  Good luck.

 

 

Just keep picking away at it...

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Saturday, June 01, 2019 11:19 PM

So, as anyone who's been watching this build knows, my chosen fabrication medium is brass for the rollcage, front clip/subframe, A-arms, transmission crossmember, (and now, a rear anti-roll bar setup)...I plan on fabbing, the trunk mounted fuel cell, front & mid mount plates, front accessory mount plate, and subframe mount bushings from aluminum (the same material those items are fabbed from on the 1:1 car)...thankfully, I'll get to replicate the rear firewall/bulkhead and package tray from styrene, since they're getting painted: I was racking my brain trying to figure out how to do the "paneling" they did instead of rolling beads...

Anyhow, while I was awaiting delivery of the powertrain and rear tires I ordered, I decided to make my first attempt at scale model rollcage fabrication, since everything else (fabrication-wise) at this point is held up...first thing to do was to decide on the sizes of brass tubing I needed to do it with...

The NHRA rules require the 1:1 rollcage structure to be made of 1.75" (44.45mm) diameter tubing, with a couple allowances for ancillary braces to be of 1.625"  (41.275mm) tubing...in 1:25 scale, these sizes translate to 0.070" (1.778mm) and 0.0650" (1.651mm) respectively...to ease the fab process, I decided to only use one size of tubing to make the cage, as the difference in diameters would be nearly imperceptible in scale...so, going with the 0.070" measurement (for the 1.750" 1:1 spec), I attempted to cross it over to available K&S fractional sizes...the closest fractional measurement to 0.070" is 5/64" (which they don't offer), and then 1/16" or 3/32" (which they DO offer)...1/16" looked way too small, so I went with the 3/32" tubing...it still looks a bit spindly to me, but I'm going to roll with it...

After mangling a section of tubing by attempting to hand bend it, the next thing was to figure out how to bend it without distorting it in the bends...Since there isn't a commercially available bender for this diameter that I could find, I surfed the web...the bends that you see below in my first 1:25 cage try were made utilizing a bending method I found somewhere online (I've surfed so much looking for a way to make satisfactory bends, I can't remember where...it might have been here, lol)...it's rather simple, using a bolt, some washers, a nut, and a small scrap of tubing or a drill bit of the same size you're bending on the side opposite the bend to keep the washers level while bending...I used 3/8" hardware, as it seemed that that inside radius was versatile enough to use in multiple places...it's a little fiddly to work with, but the main drawbacks to this bending method (in my eyes) are a lack of indexing and repeatability...after alittle brainstorming, I found some 3/8" stainless steel washers that measured 3/32" when two were stacked together...I bolted them together between a pair of common fender washers, and drilled two 1/8" holes through the stack...I then riveted the two stainless washers together, and cut a small wedge that included the riveted section so that it's inner end lines up with the edge of the 3/8" bolt...then I took out the rivets, restacked the wedge between the fender washers, riveted them all back together, and put a bolt back through it all, with two nuts (to help keep the side opposite the rivets tight) through the assembly...now I can make an almost 180 degree bend, without being so fiddly...it's not indexable (yet), and requires some concentrated eyeballing to replicate bends, but it will work for now...

The Nova has a main hoop/roof hoop type cage in it, but I wanted to try the main hoop/A-pillar style of cage to establish roughly where the "landing points" are going to be, with less pieces to make...that attempt is what you see in the pics below (made with the original version of the "bender")...I'll wait until the second Nova kit arrives (that one is the "Yenko" version) before cutting the only body and inner door panels I have for final location of the front legs...in a small deviation from the 1:1 car, I'm going to hinge the doors like a fiberglass door on a 1:1 race car would be, so the location of the A-pillar legs is critical...like the final version of the rollcage will be, it is intentionally built tall, so that I can drill into the interior floor pan and finalize it's height with a nice tight fit to the interior before final assembly...

Exploratory cage attempt, the beginning of my subframe jig, and the original iteration of the "bender"

 

Another view of the exploratory cage attempt

 

 

The original iteration of the "bender" (disassembled), and the assembled "improved" version (I didn't think to take pics of it's making, sorry)

 

 

 

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Friday, May 17, 2019 12:32 AM

Ugh....it's been a long, busy week...not alot of bench time available...alittle progress has been made: one of the extra chassis pans I tracked down has been sacrificed to the "Gods of Modification"...using the same method used to open doors and trunk lids (repeatedly scribing the cut line with the back of a #11 blade), I removed the rear wheel wells and the front subframe along with the trans crossmember...

The rear wheel wells will be used to mini-tub the chassis pan I'll be using in the final build, and the front subframe will be used to determine the dimensions of the tubular front clip and trans crossmember that I'm going to fab (once I make a jig to build it on)...

I'm waiting for parts that are on order to proceed further with both of these portions of the build: I need the rear tires for the mini-tubbing, and the BBC/Glide package that will be used...below are shots of the carved up chassis pan & parts, The Turd's mini-tub in progress, and the Smith Racecraft tubular front clip...

 .

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Friday, May 10, 2019 11:16 PM

Bainford- I'm along the same lines for the R&P I have in mind...it would be a breeze to buy a 3d printed, or resin R&P, but, 1) they don't move, and 2) they are typically of an inaccurate design similar to the Mustang II racks...the Turd utilizes a Pinto-style rack, which has a two-bolt mounting block on the left side, and a strap or block mount on the right side...the Mustang II racks use two perpendicular tubular mounts...but (in my eye), the most egregious "detail mistake" with every (non-functioning) rack I've found is that the pinion intersects the rack @ 90 degrees (even though the 1:1 rack they are modeled after have an approximately 70 degree intersecting juncture (providing additional engine clearance)...the Pinto style racks also share this "angled" intersection between the rack & pinion, and therein lies my problem: I cant seem to source an angle-cut pinion gear of tolerable scale size...

So far, I have scavenged 7 cd/dvd rom drives trying to find the "correct" gear that will allow me to assemble a reasonable facsimile that functions...I'm going to scavenge a few VCRs and perhaps a CD player/changer or two next in the search...I also have another design concept based on the design of a modern cable-driven power window regulator that may result in a more accurate visual while still functioning...SMH, brainstorms hurt, lol...tie rods are a breeze, and I think rack boots could be easily fabbed from several stacked miniature O-rings...

In another related vein of inquiry, what is your preferred solder for fabbing with brass? I am thinking that the Solder-It silver solder paste with a butane torch may yield the best results...I'm also thinking of trying the "Easy-Melt aluminum welding rods", as their process is closer to soldering than welding...

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Friday, May 10, 2019 10:45 AM

Cool project, I'll be watching.

I use a multitude of materials for scratchbuilding, but for tube work my personal preferences are brass and aluminum, and also hypodermic tubing when the need arises. Plastic is great but I tend to get better results when using metals. It's very much a personal thing. The results I see other people get from styrene is astounding.

I once made a nice, in scale working rack & pinnion steering gear. It started when I found a very tiny gear, about .080" - .100" in diameter. I found its teeth meshed perfectly with the threads on a 1/4" - 28 bolt. I ground away the brass bolt until I had a thin, narrow strip that included the threads on one side. This provided the rack & pinnion gears. The housing was easily made from K&S aluminum tubing, a longer section to house the rack and a short bit joined at 90 deg, the interface between the two was a fishmouth cut filed into each piece of tubing. That was as far as I went with the project and didn't make housing boots or tie rods, but they should be easily fabricated.

Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
       - Antoine de Saint-Exepury

Trevor

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Thursday, May 09, 2019 9:27 PM

TarheelRick

Looking forward to updates.  Wondering why you are using brass tubing rather than styrene rod?

 

 

Many things contributed to choosing brass as my medium of choice for much of the fab work on this model TarheelRick...when planning this project, I initially considered styrene as the primary fabrication medium...while I'm familiar with the material, and how to work with it, brass was always on the back of my mind...I stalked this forum and several others, checking out techniques and builds...none of them really nudged me away from styrene until I came across Tim Hoagland's ("Codi") Bantam Fuel altered thread here...what an EPIC build: I can only HOPE to achieve that level of proficiency (with simple hand tools, lol)...and then I stumbled across a set of these...yes, that is a functional ball joint in 1/25!!!...the Indian Head penny gives you a sense of it's size...how could I put this tiny work of art into styrene tubular A-arms?!?...so, brass became the primary material, instead of a "back-burner" consideration...lol, I wonder how insane I'll drive myself

Now, if I can figure out how to make a functioning Pinto-style rack and pinion (vs. the static Mustang II style presently available), I'll be on to something :-)

 EDIT: My apologies for those who attempted to find that Bantam build I referenced as being here...it is, of course, posted in another forum...old age is catching me quickly, lol...

 

  • Member since
    August, 2015
  • From: Hamptonville, NC
Posted by TarheelRick on Thursday, May 09, 2019 3:36 AM

Looking forward to updates.  Wondering why you are using brass tubing rather than styrene rod?

I build models because I can't afford the real thing!

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 11:35 PM

I've started collecting the materials needed for the project...lots of brass tubing in various sizes: I'll be fabbing subframe connectors, a front clip, tubular radiator support, upper and lower control arms, and a roll cage with it...I found extra floor pans and frames on Ebay to facilitate making the mini tubs and trunk area with...they'll also let me cut a front subframe section out, so I can make a jig of sorts to fab the front clip with...

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Posted by QuikTimz on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 10:46 PM

After initially purchasing the AMT #1142M/12 "Old Pro" 72 Nova kit at a not so local LHS, I was disappointed in it's quality...the first issue I had with it, is that there is no "not-SS" option in the kit (the Turd is a plain Jane)...even worse, (since I will be doing a highly detailed build, and opening the doors and trunk lid), I noticed the the Old Pro's molds are apparently so worn that there are no longer any upper door frames at all...so, back to the search for a victim...

Alittle research turned up Revell's #85-4274 '69 Chevy Nova COPO, which has "not-SS" components...actually locating one turned into a weeks long search...once I got it, I was pleased to see my project's basic needs met, and will simply convert it to a 72 with the trim & lamp changes needed...

  • Member since
    April, 2019
  • From: Trenton, NJ
Building The 1/25 Turd...a 72 Nova street car...
Posted by QuikTimz on Wednesday, May 08, 2019 10:09 PM

As some of you may have seen in my introductory post, my planned project involves recreating the 1:1 car that I "crew chief" on...it is a 72 Nova, that, (up until the end of last season), was a naturally-aspirated 421 SBC/TH350 powered car running 9.60s in the 1/4 mile on a 275 tire...

When she returns from the fab shop, (with mini tubs & rear firewall, a rear wing, 'chute & mount, and SFI Spec 25.5C updates to the rollcage among other things), we'll put the 565 BBC/"Glide in, finish this season's upgrades, and see if she'll go 8.50s on a 10.5" tire (with license plates) Devil...

I'll post my build updates here in this thread...

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