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1970 Dodge Challenger T/A - SloWinP

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  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
1970 Dodge Challenger T/A - SloWinP
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Sunday, April 07, 2013 8:45 AM

Hello everyone. I wanted to post this at a later point, but I ran into an issue at the beginning :-). The issue of... and the questionable importance of... what's hidden underneath a SixPak air cleaner?

Does it matter at all? Anyway, looking at the instructions, this kit - Revell's 1:25 'Streetburner'  no. (85) 4213, the one with the R/T and T/A options - has an engine with the distributor near the 'engine front', standing straight up. See instruction detail. So far I have only seen 2 reference photos with a front distributor.The rest of the time they are hidden (at the back), like in this hemi orange car, below.

The 2 front-setups: one above, in a red car, the dist'r is tilted to the side like on a Coronet/Super Bee engine (?). The other, in modelcarjr's post about his R/T, where the article pic ('the 722 club') in a magazine shows a blurred shot of a coil and distributor both up front.

All the other pics on google show engines with the dizzy behind the carburetor. Another Revell kit, no. 2596 (T/A 2in1 kit) also has a rear located dizzy. Now I am dizzy. Does it depend on the question of small block vs big block? Both these Revell kits just say 'V8 engine'. Can't find an answer on the net. Other than that, I have started preparations on the body and grille.

Thanks for helping out. Regards, Csaba

  • Member since
    August, 2011
Posted by mr.marauder on Sunday, April 07, 2013 9:25 AM
The reason for the different distributor locations is due to the fact the are on different engines.

The one in the Hemi Orange car is a 340 small and is located in the back

The one in the red car is a 440 big block which has the distributor at the front of the engine on an angle.

The third car is a hemi car which also has the front mounted distributor on an angle.

Looking at the pictures that you posted, I would guess that this is just an oversight on Revell's part.
  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Sunday, April 07, 2013 5:44 PM

Thanks a lot mr.marauder. Seems I have 2 options: turn around the kit intake manifold to install the distributor in the back, or leave the manifold as it is, but install the dizzy in an angle. I just can't tell that 100 cubic inch difference btwn the 340 and the 440 ;-) However, I guess I should go the way the reference cars/pics have it: rear mounted distributor. In that case I hope all the rest of the engine bay will remain coherent. Regards, Csaba the Overcomplicateur

  • Member since
    November, 2012
  • From: Edmonton AB, Canada
Posted by The Mad Dooby on Sunday, April 07, 2013 7:40 PM

rule of thumb  when dealing with distributors on mopars. if it's a big block, (383, 426, 440) the distributor is in the front. If its a small block (318, 340, 360) it goes in the back.

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Monday, April 08, 2013 3:31 AM

Thanks a lot TMD!

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:33 PM

Okay, I'm getting tangled up good with this build, but at least one thing I got clear now.

(What Revell also COULD have put in the instructions:) If you decide to build the T/A version of this kit, it means you build a (model) car with a 340 engine and a 'sixpak' carburetor. THEREFORE, use the T/A intake manifold (mot in the kit) or turn around the manifold to place the distributor behind the manifold. Then, if you use the '340SIX PAK' decal, you will not be making an illogical mess of your build. Grumpy

The instructions BTW say 'the R/T model was the top performance version' ...'and the T/A model was a street version of Dodge's Trans AM race car' - which to me, who knows next to nada about engines, or cars for that matter, didn't make it clear which version is/was the more powerful/faster one. But now I know the R/T had the bigger engine, so that mystery seems to be solved.

Since I'm building the T/A anyway (looks better to me full stop Mischief ) it will have a rear mounted dizzy and I will call the engine a small block.

I did a test fit with the major components.

The body seems to be too forward relative to the chassis.

Haven't figured out why, yet. The front also sits too high to my liking. The chassis has some BEEEAUTIFUL brake/fuel lines molded on...

to be continued...

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Sunday, April 14, 2013 2:50 PM

I spent my ice-cream money on a PE set for this kit, so I shaved off the side marker lights, and will have to go through the box to see what else I want to change to make room for the PE parts.

The inner fenders/shock towers are molded as one piece with the interior.

Very clever. They, obviously, don't fit very well with the body by the hood. The firewall is another nicely (loosely) positionable part.

So the front section will be detached, as marked.

Hope I got the place to cut right. Will have to think it over again. Then the 'front arms' of the chassis also do not follow the inner fenders' direction, though those will not be very visible.

You may say I am too critical of this kit. Probably I am, but I look at it this way: I am trying to make this level 2 kit into a level 3... Also, please understand, I still haven't recovered from the shock'n'horror of 'METAL AXLES!?!?!?!?!? Angry'

Thanks for looking, please comment. (I hate to make mistakes, but still somehow I do it aaall the time.) Regards, Csaba

  • Member since
    March, 2008
  • From: Canada
Posted by smellyfatdude on Sunday, April 14, 2013 10:20 PM

felhasznaaloo
I still haven't recovered from the shock'n'horror of 'METAL AXLES!?!?!?!?!? '

According to what's been written about this kit in SA, and on the forum here, it's origins go back to a diecast model. That's why the metal axles. You might wanna add a small dab of glue between axle and chassis to stop it rolling off the table, 'cause just like those old AMT annuals, it will indeed roll!
I built one of these a couple years ago, but I didn't bother trying to fix any of the issues with it. In fact, I promptly gave it to my friends 11 year old son, who wasted no time I'm sure shooting it full of holes in the basement with his pellet gun. Nice to see you're taking your time, and giving it a better effort than what I did. Whistling

                                                                                                  Regards,
                                                                                                        sfd Smile, Wink & Grin

introducing a leaner, fresher smellyfatdude 

Next builds:

Dunno

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2012
  • From: Edmonton AB, Canada
Posted by The Mad Dooby on Sunday, April 14, 2013 10:27 PM
From what I've heard, this kit is a nightmare. And the 1:24 version isn't a whole helluva lot better. But if you have any questions about T/A challengers or Challengers in general, feel free to pm or email me. I have 2 Challengers in my driveway!

As for the molded fire wall, I would cut it too, I chopped the connection from the interior bucket to the shock towers and engine details on my SRT 10 Challenger because the body didn't fit right. Keep up the good work!
  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Monday, April 15, 2013 7:08 AM

Thanks a lot SFD LaughLaugh and TMD Thumbs UpThumbs Up!

It's reassuring to know SA Forum now has its own stand-up-(and-type-away-)comedy section, brought to us all by the leaner, fresher smellyfatfdude!!!

TMDooby, thank you. I sure will approach you with questions. 2 Challies on the driveway... Damn am I green with envy... for having a driveway. NOOO,  for the 2 Challengers.

As to what I think Revell should do with the metal axles, here's a musical hint: http://youtu.be/TZfT2T1wRzo Mischief

Regards, Csaba

  • Member since
    January, 2009
Posted by DAYTONA on Monday, April 15, 2013 7:01 PM

...the T/A had a 290HP engine and the T/A package was built for road racing, not drag racing...they had different rear springs, exhaust, wheel tire combo and a few exterior add ons...nice cars to drive...the RT was available with engines from the 340 to a 426 HEMI(425HP), most of which would out run the T/A on the dragstrip...approximately 2400 T/A Challengers and 2755 AAR Cudas were built during a 90 day period in the spring of 1970 and then the program ended at Chrysler

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Tuesday, April 16, 2013 4:32 AM

Thanks a lot, Daytona, for the background info and insight. (As for the build, I did some cutting and firewall-gluing, and opened the hood scoop, but still have to blend it with the hood. Pics soon.) Regards, Csaba

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Friday, April 19, 2013 2:30 PM

Hello there styrene lovers.

I've had a terrible week with stomach aches from stress and all, so come Friday afternoon and I dived back into this build with carving, filing, puttying, sanding, breaking, drilling and eating some fruit.

I have the hood scoop open and puttied in place...

... and vent holes open, which will be filled with see-thru black ribbon mesh with 1/3 millimetre (about 1/75 inch) square mesh pattern. Don't ask me how I'm gonna glue it there as I have absolutely no clue 'bout that glue. Mischief

Since the photo was taken the 'hinges' had to go too, as I am trying to hinge this hood with something more realistically looking and what sure will make me regret this later. Laugh

I also cut out the holes in that little whatsitcalled connecting the grille to the radiator support and receiving the hood lock on a 1:1 I think... plus cut out the radiator's silhouette from its support. So the radiator will have to get some mesh up front later.

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Friday, April 19, 2013 2:48 PM

Last year, when I bought this kit I soon realized the headlights and the grille was sitting too far to the front. Now I see, comparing the model with reference pictures, that it needs to move even more to the back then I first thought. There are tons of plastic at the front of the car in this kit! Radiator support, cut that out. That crossmember that the grille, bumper and front pan click into also had to go, as that's where the grill should be sitting. So I did some more cutting...

Last time I had a problem with the body sitting relatively forward of the chassis, so I fixed that by moving the interior a bit forward within the body. This allowed the chassis to be positioned forward too. But now the firewall's top edge shows in front of the cowl. Bang Head

Anyway. I also filled in the holes of the original hinges in the cowl panel. Already shaved a while ago the side lights off the body, the pin plates off the hood, to make room for the PE vanities. The battery terminals, 'strap' and caps have gone bye-bye. The panel lines got scribed, and at one point I almost cut the door open, the body was so thin at the line! The outside door handles were too big and dis-pro-por-tion-ate, so to accommodate them to receive the PE, their bottom section had to be puttied. Sanding that was real fun.

And I barely touched the chassis ! ! ! Although there was some serious carving to mate the inner fenders better with the chassis, cause I thought that might do for a lower front stance.

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Friday, April 19, 2013 2:57 PM

By the way, the top of the windscreen is not the same shape as on the 1:1's, but I'm not touching that! Not gonna end up with this like I did with the Super Bee, no no no no...

Okay, quiz time. Anyone guess what color this T/A will be? Here's a hint ("Momma said I should eat more fruit wile modeling.")

Look at the next pic for a hint of the precise shade... Mischief

I can almost hear ya all saying D'OH! --- And the winner guess is:

Thanks for looking and excu-u-use me,

Csaba

  • Member since
    May, 2011
  • From: Australia
Posted by IMPALA SS 427 on Saturday, April 20, 2013 9:33 PM

looking good, I made one last year and it went together really nicely, my only problem was the hood was slightly crooked (warped maybe?) but it didn't sit right when closed. I will enjoy watching this.

Currently working on: DUEL Plymouth valiant, 1958 Biscayne 4 door RHD.

  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Nashua, New Hampshire
Posted by mrmike on Sunday, April 21, 2013 6:42 AM

This build is looking good and I like the color you have chosen!  As it was pointed out earlier, this kit has it origins from Revell's die-cast days.  The die-cast kit was the "Vanishing Point" Challenger which I have built and on the shelf.  Some of the issues you have found with this kit is the result of converting a die-cast metal mold to plastic.  The body does not curve in on the bottom at the rocker panels because metal does not flex like a plastic molded body can when it is removed from the mold.  The metal axles is also a hold-over from the die-cast kit.  I'm am looking forward to see just what you can do with this kit!  

"That's Spenser with an 'S' like the poet." Robert Urich Spenser For Hire 1985 

On my bench-Foose Ford FD100 Pickup; 1969 Plymouth Road Runner

Classic Plastic Model Club

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Monday, April 22, 2013 4:32 AM

Thanks IMPALA SS 427 and mrmike!

You know, mrmike, what I do is I hold the body up in front of the computer screen with a reference picture up, align the object with the image, and compare stuff. I just realized last week what you mentioned about the body not curving in enough down there. I thought I'D live with it. But NOW THAT YOU BROUGHT IT UP, though, Bang Head I'll need to do something about it as it will keep bothering me in my sleep till the end of days... But it's just TOO difficult for me. I also don't know what to do with the chassis then, narrow it, or leave it? Confused Anyway, as the Bible says, thou shalt not whine, so I'll scrape on...

  • Member since
    March, 2010
  • From: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted by 70CudaTJ on Monday, April 22, 2013 6:27 AM

Good work Csaba, you're taking the big bite and chewing like mad on this one!!!

Not sure what you're going to do about the body sides not curving in enough but I'm sure you've got plenty of drive to do it.

The orange is going to look so cool, can't see what masterpiece you turn this one into.

Tim

Slow progress is better than no progress!

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Monday, April 22, 2013 6:47 AM

Laugh Hey Tim, thanks, but I'm actually choking on it !!! Laugh

Now that my son seems not interested in model building after all, I figure SOMEONE's gotta do it, so I do it like crazy. (It seems I'll have to finish off the build myself we started with him last year.)

Masterpiece? No sir, those are published in other people's posts!

Back to work now. . .Whistling

  • Member since
    March, 2006
  • From: Spring, Tx
Posted by modelcarjr on Monday, April 22, 2013 7:15 AM

All the modifications you have made so far loog good, Csaba!  Keep up the good work! CoolThumbs Up

If you cannot have a good time, what kinda time can you have? JR

Next on the bench:  Another 1970 Hemi 'Cuda, 1958 Chevy Impala, 1987 Buick GNX, 1950 Chevy Pick-up, Indy Reynard, 1965 Corvette, probably not in this order.

  • Member since
    January, 2009
Posted by DAYTONA on Monday, April 22, 2013 11:41 PM

a couple of details if you are interested...

...as for the "rake", don't lower the front, raise the rear...the real T/A Challenger had modified rear leaf springs to increase the height of the rear...the T/A Challenger is a "very trick" factory built car...I currently own several real T/A Challengers and Challenger RTs, sitting side by side the rear of the T/A is higher than an RT by a decent amount

...hood hinges/springs...Chrysler used smaller hood springs on the T/A and AAR Cuda so there is less stress on the fiberglass hood, and many hoods still cracked / warped

...bottom side of the hood was made very sloppy, very rough fiberglass work and there are possibly braces to be added to the kit hood

...many modelers forget the proper flat black striping UNDER the hood, inner fender edge and top of cowl...this was to hide the body color from sight and to make the hoods look like they fit better than they actually did

...side exhaust pipes were painted flat black from the rear of the muffler to the chrome tips

...if you decide to open the trunk, there is a stripe on top of the rear quarters, under each end of the rear spoiler

...the T/A Challenger was built from a base Challenger, not an R/T...the AAR Cuda was built from the top of the line Cuda...T/A obviously stands for Trans Am, but Chrysler used T/A on the Challenger so they wouldn't have to pay a $5 fee to the Trans Am Racing Association for each car they built...their racing history was dismal at best

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Tuesday, April 23, 2013 7:58 AM

Thank you modelcarjr and DAYTONA.

Yes, DAYTONA, those are precious pieces of info for me, thanks! A few of those I know and I can actually recall I learnt them from one of your earlier comments to earlier builds. :-D

What was new and real important to me was the rake/rear height! I am planning to use metal leaf springs and - now I know - longer rear shocks.

Hood hinges - that is where I might reach some results tonight. . .

Bottom side of hood: I didn't plan to touch that because of the 'low visibility'. Should I emphasize with some material the braces already embossed? Can't find a photo of the pattern on the net.

Under-hood-striping, exhaust color: will be done!

I am not opening trunk or doors, not up to that yet... But thanks, I'd've missed that.

Regards, Csaba

  • Member since
    October, 2012
Posted by Idonthavetimeforthis on Thursday, April 25, 2013 8:14 PM
I'll be following this one Csaba. Looks good so far. Interested in seeing where it goes from here.
  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Friday, April 26, 2013 4:18 PM

Hey, thanks, Idonthavetimeforthis. How's the Road Runner coming along? No posts recently?

Well, I've had little time for the T/A... but made some progress. I started work on the bottom section of the body. First I cut the duplicates of the door jambs from the chassis.

The sides of the interior fit the new width, only a few corners/edges had to be chopped off.

With a desk lamp set below the body, to see how thin it was, I did some grinding on its inside with the motor tool to thin the panel, so that it could be bent inwards to reach the chassis sides.

Then I bent the body under hot running water. Almost there, but still need to bend it a little more (at left: unbent, at right: already partially bent half).

It also remains to be determined whether the lower rear ?quarter ?panel (section behind the rear wheel wells) has to be bent too. Snail Regards, Csaba

  • Member since
    March, 2011
Posted by Platerpants on Saturday, April 27, 2013 6:48 AM

nice build so far cant wait for paint and engine detail.

If Its A Muscle Car Its A Real Car. Cool

  • Member since
    November, 2012
  • From: Edmonton AB, Canada
Posted by The Mad Dooby on Saturday, April 27, 2013 1:35 PM
The Lower rear quarter will need to be bent to line up with the rockers (under door). The front fender curve lines up much the same way as well!
  • Member since
    August, 2005
  • From: Nashua, New Hampshire
Posted by mrmike on Sunday, April 28, 2013 6:53 PM

WOW!!  What did I create when I posted that little bit about the curvature at the bottom of the body?!!  On one hand, you are building a great looking and authentic Challenger T/A.  On the other hand, I'm sorry I mentioned anything about the body that would cause you sleepless nights until the end of days.  Sorry!  

BTW, keep up the good work!

"That's Spenser with an 'S' like the poet." Robert Urich Spenser For Hire 1985 

On my bench-Foose Ford FD100 Pickup; 1969 Plymouth Road Runner

Classic Plastic Model Club

  • Member since
    February, 2012
  • From: Central/Eastern Europe
Posted by felhasznaaloo on Monday, April 29, 2013 2:21 AM

Thanks a lot, Platerpants, TMD and mrmike!

Not much progress here, however, even more problems to solve... I got home late at night every night recently, so noisy use of a motor tool was discouraged :-P

While working on the grille fit, however, I finally got the total picture of where the grille and headlights should sit, opposed to how they are molded, and why the front fender leading edges look so stupid around the headlight bezels. To sum it up, the grille part will be chopped up, the headlight bezels will sink below the radiator mount plates(?), the plates(?) elongated to the front, the front fender leading edges need to be puttied and shaved to achieve a more correct look (a semi-hexagonal outline - looking from the front - compared to their present messy shape). And all this just because the hood opens up! I would've been better off with a T/A curbside!!! Rgds, Csaba

  • Member since
    March, 2010
  • From: Adelaide, South Australia
Posted by 70CudaTJ on Monday, April 29, 2013 5:26 AM

You certainly are going accurate on this one Csaba, brilliant work. You have a good eye for what looks correct and are taking care of it. This is gonna be sweet  Thumbs Up

Slow progress is better than no progress!

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