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A Question ; From O.C.G. to Mark Jones .

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  • Member since
    October, 2008
A Question ; From O.C.G. to Mark Jones .
Posted by oldcarguy on Friday, November 23, 2018 8:58 AM

Hi Ya,all ;

Listen , I have been building and mashing these here model cars since they were wood . What I don't get is this . Mark Jones . Nice article in the Bullit issue . But why do you assume everyone has a Lathe and Mill machine ?

 How to-os are supposed to be for everyone to learn from .Yes , you did a great job . But no suggestions for those of us who do not have such beasties , say . I used my Lathe , but you can use a Dremel type tool at extremely slow speed . Well , when I milled this on my machine I forgot , you can do it this way without one . Remember those of us who have gone past the beginner or pleasure stage , not all modelers have the funds or the seen need for , to them , expensive tools they won't use that often .

 Aren't we , the older builders , Supposed to be teaching and bringing along those who derive the same pleasure we do from modeling auto greats ! We can't keep them if they feel lost without these items ..

 If we constantly harp on this tool or that A.M. supplier , we are going to push away the least of us who can and will be our next generation of great modelers .  O.C.G.

gjgeracci
  • Member since
    February, 2016
Posted by Plowboy on Friday, November 23, 2018 10:55 AM

Number 1: You should address your question directly to Mark via private message. Not publicly on the forum. I'm sure he will gladly answer your question. Doing it in this manner is not acceptable plain and simple.

Number 2: Mark's how to's are for advanced builders. Not beginners. Look at his work and you'll understand.

Number 3: I now understand your other post complaining about having your post removed. This one should be removed as well.  

I doubt you would like it if someone criticized you publicly. You should pay the same respect to Mark. 

  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Portland Oregon: Tree Country. Most beautiful area on the West coast.
Posted by Treehugger Dave on Friday, November 23, 2018 1:13 PM

I agree with Plowboy.

There are all different levels of building for all kinds of reasons.

Marks WIP's show what can be done at his level and can inspire others to see what can be done if they were willing to try and step up to a new level of building. Many of us when we were younger and just getting started went to model shows to see what could be done and what appealed to us. To me this is the same thing.

I did WIP projects here for years and the guys were always grateful and many said they were inspired to try new things and move to a higher level of building.

Many other really good builders here did the same thing. Passing on what you have to offer to other builders. I learned from others here to.

Mark had to start as a beginner like all of us and he took it to the level he wanted to build and enjoy the hobby. That's what we all do.

Even if we don't machine parts he still shows us what can be done and we can make the parts using other techniques.

He gives us more variety and choices. I think that's pretty cool Thumbs Up

 

 

 

                                     

 

 

  • Member since
    October, 2008
Posted by oldcarguy on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:27 PM

Plowboy;

 I did it this way so others could read this . Not to really critisize him .

 Now that said . How would you feel if maybe you had four or five shows and maybe twenty models under your belt and you read that article .Yes , he's advanced beyond that stage . But there were a whole group of my students who get the Mag that asked Do we really need a lathe and that milling thingamajig ?

 I have to then explain that Mark is almost a master modeler and he's advanced to that level . When you get there you can get those tools . Remember I say almost a Master Modeler . I don't know if he is .

 After four museums that had me do work , T.V. channels and Numerous attorneys I think I could say that I am . I do Not know Mark's background . If My post offends you that much I am sorry . I tell it like I see it , and at seventy-five I reserve the right to tell what I see as the truth . OldCarGuy

gjgeracci
  • Member since
    October, 2008
Posted by oldcarguy on Tuesday, November 27, 2018 3:32 PM

Dave;

  I wrote this publicly because I would pose that question to him face to face . Mark is a talented builder . Now what if you can't afford that Lathe or that Milling Machine ? I just would like Mark and others who have graduated to a higher level to remember there are those that would , But they cannot see their way to buying something that they at their present level would use but rarely .

 So give them an alternative if only in passing ! OldCarGuy

gjgeracci
  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Wednesday, November 28, 2018 7:39 AM

What if one or two of your students aspired to be an advanced model maker? Where would they learn about the tools and techniques to do so? It may be the average model builder that funds this hobby and keeps it going, but, for my money anyway, it is the work of the advanced builders that makes it interesting. Every model car forum and magazine has been dripping with tips & tricks for the average model builder. There is no shortage of it. My biggest complaint with Scale Auto Magazine and other hobby magazines is a serious lack of articles and information on advanced techniques and processes.

Just my two cents worth.

Perfection is achieved not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.
       - Antoine de Saint-Exepury

Trevor

  • Member since
    December, 2003
Posted by mark taylor on Thursday, November 29, 2018 8:38 PM

I completely agree. I think nobody should ever try to push the envelope. Let's dumb it down and use tube glue and a silver pencil to do chrome trim like it was 1962! You, sir, are a visionary genius. When I spend my $7/issue I want to be sure that no advance in the craft of model building is allowed. 

You need to read your own post again (I put it up there so you can do it easily) and realize how "Get Off My Lawn" you are coming off. Did Mr. Jones write "I assume you have a mill" as you assert, or did he show the possibiltiy of what you could do with a mill?  I for one won't ever use chrome foil, lacquer paints, or super glue since I can't assume everyone has it. I wouldn't want to offend the less fortunate who can't figure out the way to the hobby shop or how Amazon works. That's how silly you come off. 

Thanks to SA for pushing the envelope. FSM did the same. The goal posts move, quality and what is possible get better...and the hobby is better for it. If mediocre is OK for you, they have Welly diecasts, you know.

P.S. what's with the double-spaces before periods and commas, and the random capitalization of words "Numerous" in the middle of sentences?

  • Member since
    November, 2006
  • From: Iowa
Posted by Bluesman Mark on Friday, November 30, 2018 9:39 AM

Scale Auto has always, (including from the era it was Scale Auto Enthusiast), been a source for someone to become a better modeler if they so desired, & Mark Jones' excellent article is just another march forward in that aspect.

I'm not sure how long you've read the magazine, but I can recall articles in Car Modeler, (a sister publication to SA), written by the late Augie Hiscano on using lathes, & that was nearly twenty years ago, along with more recent ones by David Thibodeau where he used one to make parts with as well. I've been reading SA since 1990, & I've expanded my collection backwards to earlier issues, so I've got a pretty good grasp on how often it's had articles that advanced the techniques.

I understand that some may not want to "push the envelope" as far as these gentlemen, (I'm one of them in fact), but both for those that do, & for those of us that may not, but are interested in the process, articles like these are valuable, both as a source of knowledge for those aspiring to go further, & as a source of inspiration for the rest of us, to improve our craftsmanship at the very least.

Scale Auto went through a period starting around 2004/2005 where a lot of the material was indeed "dumbed down", (especially by one former & now thankfully long gone contributor), & I for one don't want to see it slide back into that particular abyss. The issues from that era are often of little help to most that do want to become better at this. After all, this isn't "Remedial Car Modeler Builder" magazine, nor should it be. SA offers things for model car builders all across the spectrum, from beginner to advanced, & it always has.

 My signature should say it all: Remember, "good enough" can always be better. Refusal to improve is just an acceptance of your own mediocrity.

Remember, "good enough" can always be better. Refusal to improve is just an acceptance of your own mediocrity.

  • Member since
    November, 2004
  • From: UK
Posted by PatrickW on Friday, November 30, 2018 10:24 AM

I'm amazed at what Mark has created, but as an ex-office worker I have no engineering skills or knowhow and no room to have any type of lathe or any other machinery.

So I'm just a model maker in resin/plastic or white metal, and that's what I enjoy. Customising by adding different parts and painting in colours that the factories would never have thought of or even liked. 

I also create and print my own decals and have been able to try a bit of casting with plaster and resin.

And this is over 60 years.

  • Member since
    July, 2005
  • From: Surf City, So Cal
Posted by Scale-Master on Friday, November 30, 2018 10:41 AM
First of all, thank you to all that have commented on this.
 
I try to be inclusive of all levels of builders knowing there is a very wide range.  In any given article I often share some simple yet effective methods, and varying degrees of more advanced ways of doing things (depending on one's perspective of course).  The O.P. suggests I "assume everyone has a lathe and a mill".  With all due respect, I do not.
 
The idea that I should provide alternative suggestions on how other builders could achieve the same results using "simpler" tools is not the goal; although in some cases I have done just that. 
The goal is to explain how it was actually done. 
Do you want to learn from someone who has actually performed the work, or someone who assumes it could be done such & such of a way?   
In addition, I would hope that maybe someone will see that a certain tool is not as intimidating as others might have them thinking it is.  Also, the cost of what some deem as expensive can actually be quite affordable in the long run if it is an avenue they want to explore.
 
Let me pose these questions in the same vein. 
How would readers/builders like to see parts that were made on a mill or lathe but be told that they could be done (or worse, had been done) with a Dremel or other "simpler" tools, when the results possibly cannot be had using said tools? 
(I know some builders who think a Dremel is a luxury tool and do not have one; should we all stop using that tool as well when sharing how we build?) 
Or what if a builder/writer routinely used Bare Metal Foil for all the chrome trim, but in all the articles he claimed he used silver paint?  How would that be accepted by the builders/readers unable to get the same results?
 
From my many discussions with other builders, often they want to know how something was made.  Not to necessarily to make it themselves or even the same way, but just to satisfy their own curiosity or to get an understanding of how it was done so they can make something like it using their own skill sets and tools at hand.
 
So one part in an article was machined, did that negate all the other tips and information using simpler tools?  No, plus there are tenfold more articles I've written that do not even mention machining.
 
The O.P. offered some assumptions about me personally and how I approach my building and writing and my "ranking" in the building world.  Without addressing them individually I will say those assumptions are short sighted and incorrect. 
 
 
As I mentioned, I try to offer information on how I built these models to a wide audience, and I build everything from out-of-the-box to 100% scratch-built depending on the project.  I know I can't please everyone, but I am not going to "dumb down" my work or dishonestly describe what I did to get the results I achieve.   My goal is to inform and hopefully inspire, or at the very least provide some work-arounds to make building more enjoyable and to show some things are easier to do than they may look as finished subjects.
 
 

Build what you want and build it for yourself, the rest will follow... Mark D. Jones

  • Member since
    October, 2008
Posted by oldcarguy on Friday, November 30, 2018 3:09 PM

Thank You Mark ;

 I made mention of these things because of my classes .They range from thirty somethings to my age group Which is in the seventies . I do not try to disparage anyone from doing great work . My Son 48 years said it best . How do we do it if we don't have acces to those more advanced tools ?

    This is what I meant I have made my own lathe when I need one from a Black and Decker slow speed battery powered drill . The tailstock is a rotating chuck from a very dead drill . It has worked well for more years than I care to count .

 True , dumbing down is not good .But emotionally and physically how do you schieve those tools ( granted they aren't that expensive ) when your Prosthetic and it's condition is more important cost wise .

   I am NOT saying do something special for these and other folks , even if they never show a thing . I just feel that those of us who have gotten this far should be willing to hint or refer to articles that can help them .We have a large modeling community out there because of folks like myself who are willing to ride them hard and take no excuse for any percieved shortage of tools .The greatest tool is our mind and you know that .Else where did you learn all that good stuff you do ?

 I am glad you are out there and doing it . Just sometimes give ideas or hints as to how it was done in your earlier years , Please ?

  Remember this some facilities where folks get put back together do not allow these power tools if they have to be plugged in and they get to work maybe two days a week , well away from where they hang their hat . I want your help , not your Ire .OldCarGuy.

gjgeracci
  • Member since
    December, 2003
Posted by mark taylor on Friday, November 30, 2018 6:05 PM

Poor Otis dead and gone
Left me here to sing his song
Pretty little girl with the red dress on
Poor Otis dead and gone

 

You do know he does box-stock kit reviews for SA. Not just a couple...in almost every issue. I mean, you can remember earlier magazines, can't you? Go look at a few.

Oh, Otis...the world must be a disturbing place for the likes of you. 

  • Member since
    October, 2008
Posted by oldcarguy on Sunday, December 02, 2018 9:53 AM

????????????????????

gjgeracci
  • Member since
    December, 2003
Posted by mark taylor on Sunday, December 02, 2018 5:26 PM

Oh, Otis. 

Your place here isn't to understand, it's to be confused by the world and how it works. You're doing a great job. Every village needs one of you. Make sure to hang the keys up on the wall when you leave.

  • Member since
    January, 2008
  • From: Plano (Dallas), Texas
Posted by mmthrax on Wednesday, January 16, 2019 8:27 AM

SPAM reported

Just keep picking away at it...

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