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New modeller questions

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  • Member since
    April, 2017
New modeller questions
Posted by jlee9 on Sunday, April 02, 2017 4:22 PM

 

Hi All, I'm hoping someone can answer some questions for a new guy. My son has started wanting to get into model cars and we did a couple of level one snap together kits and have taken the plunge into the level 2 painting and gluing. I have no previous experience to this and am currently reading through various websites/videos/etc to find the best ways to work with him.

Here's what we are doing now:
- using acrylic paints and painting the parts on the sprue trees before cutting out

My question is this:
I assumed that anything above level 2 kits meant you needed to paint and glue all the parts. From the instructions, it seems that the engine fits together (no mention of glue, as the "glue/cement" icon is only found on subsequent sections),
1. Do I need to glue this section together?
2. Would it hurt if I did? Even if the instructions don't indicate it?
3. I didn't prime the small parts for the engine. I wasn't planning on priming anything besides the outside body? Is this okay? Should I be priming all pieces?

I know these must seem like pretty beginner questions, please let me know if there is another forum that I could possibly go to if this is not the proper one.

Thanks,
Joe

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: East Bethel, Mn
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, April 02, 2017 5:35 PM

As a general rule, level 2 kits require glue. I prime bodies, basic engine assemblies that are the same color, as it helps give a even coverage of the engine color. Hope this helps.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
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  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by jlee9 on Sunday, April 02, 2017 11:54 PM

midnightprowler

As a general rule, level 2 kits require glue. I prime bodies, basic engine assemblies that are the same color, as it helps give a even coverage of the engine color. Hope this helps.

 



Just started to cut and glue the engine together.  Realized why they say to cut and sand before painting now.  After putting the engine block together, we'll probably start cutting/sanding (possibly glueing where needed) before painting.  This leads to my next question:

What do you guys use to hold your parts while painting?  I've seen some people with the alligator clips on skewers and am thinking of going that way,but do the alligator clips damage the plastic pieces at all (I'm thinking of the especially small ones)

  • Member since
    August, 2015
  • From: Hamptonville, NC
Posted by TarheelRick on Monday, April 03, 2017 3:34 AM

It is best to prime every piece that is going to be painted. It makes the paint adhere better, especially acrylics; and if you get into hotter paints, such as lacquers it will provide a protective barrier for the styrene.  Other methods of holding pieces is to use "blue tack" (found in the stationary section) on the end of a stick, or double-sided tape.  Just look around yor house and you may find other methods to use for holding pieces.  Welcome to the hobby.

I build models because I can't afford the real thing!

  • Member since
    March, 2006
  • From: Spring, Tx
Posted by modelcarjr on Monday, April 03, 2017 7:12 AM

I also primer every piece that is not chrome or clear plastic. I generally primer and paint everything on the sprue except for the engine. Once you remove the piece from the sprue its easy to remove the remnant of the sprue with a sanding stick for filing nails and then touching it up with a brush. 

I use alligator clips for the more substantial pieces at times and they generally won't damage the piece if you don't snap them on but clamp the clip slowly and carefully. I also use tape and index cards. Simply loop a piece of masking tape, apply it to a card and them hold the card with a clip securely taped to a piece of sprue. Great for interior pieces like inner door panels and seats or even an engine piece like an oil filter. Simply attach the oil filter to the tape for the end that will be glued to engine. Then you can paint it by rotating the index card. I prefer to paint everything with a spray lacquer, outside of course. I use WalMart ColorPlace gray primer which is inexpensive and does a great job. As with all spray paint, doing it outside generally provides enough ventilation and is much cheaper than investing in a ventilated paint booth but requires good weather.

I usually assemble the basic engine pieces before paint; engine block, oil pain, heads, water pump, and valve covers, if not chromed. Then I can insert a square to round toothpick in the end of the transmission and put some tape around the toothpick and the end of the transmission. The transmission will generally be painted steel once the engine is painted and can be done later with a brush. But once the engine black is together both primer and paint can be applied while rotating the engine on the toothpick.

Hope that helps! Cool

If you cannot have a good time, what kinda time can you have? JR

Next on the bench:  Another 1970 Hemi 'Cuda, 1958 Chevy Impala, 1987 Buick GNX, 1950 Chevy Pick-up, Indy Reynard, 1965 Corvette, probably not in this order.

  • Member since
    July, 2016
Posted by tbone on Monday, April 03, 2017 9:11 AM

jlee9, the best method that I have found for holding parts and bodies for painting is to buy yourself a "hot-melt" adhesive glue gun for about 5 bucks at your local craft or home store. Then get youself a medium sized block of that green foam that is used for flower arrangements at the craft store as well. Finally, purchase a pack of "popsicle" sticks and a pack of toothpicks. Use the hot-melt adhesiive to attach the popsicle stick (larger parts & bodies) or the toothpicks (smaller parts) to the part you want to paint (in an inconspicuous area on the back). Push the other end of the popsicle stick or toothpick into the foam block and you're set to paint. After the paint is dry, you can simply pull the popsicle stick or the toothpick off of the part since the hot-melt adhesive is not a permanent type of adhesive and does not bond stongly to polystyrene. You just roll the stick a bit and it comes off. If there's any hot-melt adhesive left on the part, you can just pick it off with you fingernail and it leaves no residue - it comes off clean. No damage to the part to worry about.

  • Member since
    September, 2013
Posted by mikee-va on Monday, April 03, 2017 9:16 AM

Thanks for this info.  Hadn't considered it in the past.  I've always tried bunching up some tape and sticking it on the back of the part to paint.

tks mike

  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by jlee9 on Monday, April 03, 2017 11:07 AM

Hi All,

thanks again for all the tips.  I will be going back to the model/hardware/hobby store and get some more stuff for the models.  My son and I are very excited about this.  I think the more practice the better.  We're taking it very slow and steady.  All these helpful hints will be used.  Much appreciated.  Thanks!

 

  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by jlee9 on Monday, April 03, 2017 11:22 AM

modelcarjr

I also primer every piece that is not chrome or clear plastic. I generally primer and paint everything on the sprue except for the engine. Once you remove the piece from the sprue its easy to remove the remnant of the sprue with a sanding stick for filing nails and then touching it up with a brush. 

I use alligator clips for the more substantial pieces at times and they generally won't damage the piece if you don't snap them on but clamp the clip slowly and carefully. I also use tape and index cards. Simply loop a piece of masking tape, apply it to a card and them hold the card with a clip securely taped to a piece of sprue. Great for interior pieces like inner door panels and seats or even an engine piece like an oil filter. Simply attach the oil filter to the tape for the end that will be glued to engine. Then you can paint it by rotating the index card. I prefer to paint everything with a spray lacquer, outside of course. I use WalMart ColorPlace gray primer which is inexpensive and does a great job. As with all spray paint, doing it outside generally provides enough ventilation and is much cheaper than investing in a ventilated paint booth but requires good weather.

I usually assemble the basic engine pieces before paint; engine block, oil pain, heads, water pump, and valve covers, if not chromed. Then I can insert a square to round toothpick in the end of the transmission and put some tape around the toothpick and the end of the transmission. The transmission will generally be painted steel once the engine is painted and can be done later with a brush. But once the engine black is together both primer and paint can be applied while rotating the engine on the toothpick.

Hope that helps! Cool

 

 

It does help!  Just a follow up question (sorry, if it's a simple one), I'm assuming that the primer works with acrylic paints?  I'm I correct in assuming that acrylic paints are more widely used due to ease of clean up, or is that just wrong?

  • Member since
    March, 2006
  • From: Spring, Tx
Posted by modelcarjr on Monday, April 03, 2017 2:18 PM

Jlee, acrylic will be fine over lacquer. However, never lacquer over enamel and probably not acrylic. I haven't used much acrylic but I am sure there are many modelers who do. You didn't mention if you are airbrushing the acrylic or brush painting. Either way if you paint a bright color such as yellow or orange over the gray primer you may see the gray coming back through the paint. Even with two coats it may still "ghost" through. I generally use a flat white, such as, WalMart ColorPlace flat white as a base coat after the primer. For instance, if I am painting a chevy engine which is generally orange, I first apply a gray primer and then the flat white before painting the orange alowing dry time of at least a couple hours between colors. 

There is also Tamiya white fine surface primer that can be found at Hobby Lobby but its expensive. Use a coupon if you buy it! I haven't airbrushed acrylic as the Testors Acrylic thinner is much too expensive and I haven't looked for a reasonable substitute as I don't use it much. I like to use lacquer almost exclusively except for bottle paints that I use with a brush and can be either enamel or acrylic.  I am sure there are others who primarily use enamel or acrylic.  But lacquer is my preference due to the shorter dry time. Outdoors, of course! I spend a lot of time painting on my table on my screened patio, which drive my wife crazy, but after 38 years she puts up with it!

Hope that helps! Cool

If you cannot have a good time, what kinda time can you have? JR

Next on the bench:  Another 1970 Hemi 'Cuda, 1958 Chevy Impala, 1987 Buick GNX, 1950 Chevy Pick-up, Indy Reynard, 1965 Corvette, probably not in this order.

  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by jlee9 on Monday, April 03, 2017 2:26 PM

I've just started out with acrylic and will probably be sticking to that.  I will now go and get some grey primer and some of the flat white as well (my son has chosen an orange that he wants for the body).  I am brush painting the small parts and then rattle can the body.  

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Monday, April 03, 2017 2:45 PM

Just out of morbid curiosity Joe, what kit are you building?

Power matters in the straights.
Lightness matters everywhere. - Colin Chapman

Trevor

  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by jlee9 on Monday, April 03, 2017 3:07 PM

Bainford

Just out of morbid curiosity Joe, what kit are you building?

 

I believe it's a Camaro, Level 2 model, from AMT????  EMT??  Some 3 letter abreviation.  We were able to pick up some Value Village finds in a Dodge Charger(complete), an Impala and a Tamiya MB SLK, that was quite the haul (all for about $25 Candian).  Getting the excitement!

  • Member since
    March, 2006
  • From: Spring, Tx
Posted by modelcarjr on Monday, April 03, 2017 9:24 PM

Jlee, I don't use acrylic but I'm not familiar with a rattle can acrylic. Can you enlighten me on what you are using for the body? What is the brand? I know Tamiya has a nice orange in a rattle can but that is lacquer. I'm a bit confused.

If you cannot have a good time, what kinda time can you have? JR

Next on the bench:  Another 1970 Hemi 'Cuda, 1958 Chevy Impala, 1987 Buick GNX, 1950 Chevy Pick-up, Indy Reynard, 1965 Corvette, probably not in this order.

  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by jlee9 on Monday, April 03, 2017 9:40 PM

modelcarjr

Jlee, I don't use acrylic but I'm not familiar with a rattle can acrylic. Can you enlighten me on what you are using for the body? What is the brand? I know Tamiya has a nice orange in a rattle can but that is lacquer. I'm a bit confused.

 

Hi,

I checked, it's Tamiya Color for Plastics (TS-36, fluorescent red).  I thought it was acrylic, but I'm not sure what it is.  Is this enamel or lacquer?

 

  • Member since
    April, 2017
Posted by jlee9 on Monday, April 03, 2017 11:23 PM

Hey, modelcarjr, I've looked up your suggestion for a primer, is this it? https://www.walmart.com/ip/Color-Place-Gray-Primer-Spray-11-oz/19525315 I live in Canada and I'll check out Walmart, but if you say this works, then I'll probably grab a bottle this week and start with that.  Also, instead of doing the grey primer and flat white, could you just do a white primer on the body?

  • Member since
    March, 2006
  • From: Spring, Tx
Posted by modelcarjr on Tuesday, April 04, 2017 7:16 AM

Yes, Jlee, that is the primer that I like to use. There are a lot of primers but I like to use this one because you can get an 11 oz. can for about $1.50 US and it works fine for me. Tamiya also makes a white fine surface primer but I have had varying results with it. It is very thin and sometimes is very shiny or slick when dry. That can cause a subsequent coat of color to run. The second problem with white primer is that if you paint a white plastic body it will be hard to tell if you covered everything or if the primer is covering well. The purpose of primer is to give the plastic a surface for paint to adhere to. That's why I like to use gray primer and then ColorPlace flat white as it provides a "rougher" or "less slick" surface to adhere to.

The Tamiya TS paints are all lacquers. Lacquer generally dries quickly and has a dull finish normally. You may have to follow with a couple of coats of Clear and Tamiya has a good one but I don't have the number for you as I haven't used it in a while. You have a second issue with a flourescent color as it will dry even more "flat" or "dull". I would suggest TS-12 Orange if you want nice orange, like this:

Since you are planning to paint with a lacquer I would be remiss if I didn't tell you to take safety precautions and paint in a well ventilated area like outside or in the garage with at least one outside door open. Many modelers would suggest that you use a aspirated painter's mask that you can pick up for about $30 or so dollars at a big box hardware store like, Home Depot or Freight Harbor Tools, etc., especially if there are any respiratory issues, such as, asthma, etc.  My grandson's have asthma so Grandma suggests that I not paint while they are here or for at least 2 hours before they get here. You may want to keep your son away while painting as kids have the uncanny ability to stick their noses in the wrong place.

There are two issues with a spray paint. First, while the paint is in the air you will have overspray. So when I paint on the back patio I first cover the table with an old bed sheet and move the chairs out of the line of fire. Some people use a big box on its side and paint the model in the box to contain the overspray.

The second issue is that once the painting is complete it will "gas out" while it is drying. If you leave it outside with high humidity it may become cloudy looking. There is always the issue with airborn junk floating into the paint. I always carry mine into the house as soon as I am done with each paint session which means it will "gas out" in the house.  Painting the body will take two to three paint sessions with light coats of paint to avoid runs and orange peel.  I usually let it dry the rest of the day and overnight in my model room away from other activities in the house. My wife still doens't like it but usually the smell is gone in an hour and it doesn't bother me and I don't have respiratory problems or allergies.

One other thing: You didn't mention which AMT Camaro you are building but most Camaro models have a front and rear fascia or assembly. It is ofter better to attach these either permanently if the assembly instructions let you or you can attach them temporarily with some white glue while painting so that you get a consistent finish on the body and other body parts. If you paint them separately it is important to get the same number of coats on each piece with the same number of passes. I would suggest that you find a painting video to watch before you paint if you are new to the process. Painting a model is difficult skill to learn. I am still learing after 30 years! Do not expect perfection on your first one! Cool

If you cannot have a good time, what kinda time can you have? JR

Next on the bench:  Another 1970 Hemi 'Cuda, 1958 Chevy Impala, 1987 Buick GNX, 1950 Chevy Pick-up, Indy Reynard, 1965 Corvette, probably not in this order.

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