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Motown issue got me down...

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  • Member since
    August, 2016
Motown issue got me down...
Posted by zk6216 on Wednesday, March 15, 2017 8:44 PM

I have a 71 pro stock body from Comp resin. Im building the Motown missle and has been a dream to build one finally. I have plans to go all out on this build for the time I have is far and few in between. I bought also a Sox and Martin cuda pro stock kit and a 70 challenger r/t and an AMT Yankee kit ... 

Problems I am having is mock up on the interior tub and chassis I want to use the Sox and Martin but in the front the frame won't tuck up into the body and the rest deck looks off. I'm overly frustrated and I scratched the resin cutting the windows out so I am sanding those spots out. Any one build or no what I am doing wrong or could do. I'm just frustrated and down about this build ... Please help scale auto world

Thanks everyone 

 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
Posted by trainwreck on Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:07 AM

None of the kits you mentioned above are suggested as doner kits for this body. All I can say is you are going to have to do some math (measuring key points) to determine what needs to be modified and how much needs to be removed from your doner frame to make it fit. I would start with the wheel base and work your way to the splash pans. Tape your dash panel into the interior and line it up with the front windshield to determine what (if anything) needs to be removed from the attached front wheel wells. PS, most of the challenger parts are not going to work. good luck Trainwreck. 

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:11 AM

If these aren't donor kits then which ones should I use the Sox and Martin I am robbing most pro stock parts but what would be a good donor kit?

  • Member since
    August, 2014
Posted by trainwreck on Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:27 AM

The manufacturer suggests the Testors or Jo-han cudas, I would still try and make the revell frame and int. work provided the wheel base is accurate. Trainwreck.

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:31 AM

I have the Johan cuda but the rear shelf is shorter but for the most part lines up may need cut in the front to lower it down though 

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 6:43 AM

Would a testors lot be better ?

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:07 AM

The Testors Cuda and the JoHan Cuda are the same kit.

You didn't say if you are trying to use teh Revell Sox & Martin kit as a doner ot the JoHan. If you are using the JoHan kit, then that is the right doner.

Power matters in the straights.
Lightness matters everywhere. - Colin Chapman

Trevor

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:19 AM

It's a Sox and Martin pretty sure it's a Johan ? I just don't get how to make the rear shelf look right for the interior tub and the frame looks right maybe a couple mm short but cuda's always had a bit shorter frame. Bang Head

  • Member since
    August, 2014
Posted by trainwreck on Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:32 PM

Perhaps I should have questioned your posting a little further, if you have the Jo-han cuda then you have all you need!!!!!! I thought you where trying to fit the newer Revell Sox & Martin cuda frame into the resin casting.If you have to add or subtract little bits here and there, well that's half the fun and par for the course when working with after market parts. Trainwreck.

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 1:54 PM

Nevermind I have the 70 Sox and Martin revell. So would it be easier with the Jo han kit ? 

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 3:15 PM

If so what are the differences ? Bang Head

  • Member since
    December, 2007
  • From: Portland Oregon: Tree Country. Most beautiful area on the West coast.
Posted by Treehugger Dave on Thursday, March 16, 2017 7:25 PM

With all these questions, it sounds like your trying to build a model in the dark.

Why not do like most the rest of us and make a few mistakes and learn from them. You can't learn much gettin' spoon fed, and you'll still make mistakes.

I've been building for decades and still make a mistake or two here and there, but that means I'm still learning and that excites me.

Quit being such a perfectionist and roll up yout sleaves and start choppin' stuff up Thumbs Up Thumbs Up. Ya just gotta have some "Ba**s.

I love Mecum Auctions and Barrett/Jackson auctions and what would I do without Ebay.

 

 

                                     

 

 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
Posted by trainwreck on Thursday, March 16, 2017 8:37 PM

Well put, think you need to just jump into it zk , I tip my hat to you Treehugger Dave. Trainwreck.

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:37 PM

I appreciate all the help and I do not mean to be in the dark or grow a set.. I am no perfectionist and I always learn from mistakes and maybe I'm in the wrong hobby because my time restraints. I just was looking for answers so my wallet would buy the right kit or parts and because Money is so scarce. I was always told to ask questions not to be spoon fed but to gain knowledge through research, and sure I know mistakes will happen. I roll my sleeves up everyday I work three jobs one full time on the 1:1 stuff for a dealership and two part time jobs were  turnout gear and lives our at stake. I am sorry if I have bothered people on this fourm and promise to not want spoon feed anymore. God bless 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
Posted by trainwreck on Thursday, March 16, 2017 9:48 PM

I'm sure we meant no hurt ,but all the info required was in the thread. I couldn't think of any further info to give you, peace man Trainwreck.

  • Member since
    December, 2003
  • From: Nova Scotia
Posted by Bainford on Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:41 PM

Yes, Dave's message is definately intended to be one of encouragment. Don't get discouraged. We're on your side.

As for the chassis, if the body was intended to be used with JoHan chassis, then it will likely be the better fit. However, that kit is harder to find and more costly. It is also not near as nice as the Revell kit. And as trainwreck said above, a resin body is going to require some degree of custom fitting regardless of which chassis is used.

If you have the Revell kit already, it can probably be made to fit with a little tweaking here, a little trimming there. And it is a much nicer chassis than in the JoHan kit.

Power matters in the straights.
Lightness matters everywhere. - Colin Chapman

Trevor

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Thursday, March 16, 2017 10:47 PM

I know I love all the people on the forum I ask a lot.of questions and I try to look first before I ask just couldn't find any and I seen some issues I'd need to fix was just trying to figure the best donor 

  • Member since
    July, 2011
Posted by Racer H on Monday, March 20, 2017 3:56 PM
Created in 1970, the initial seasons of Pro Stock Eliminator (NHRA-Style) were predominantly made-up of entries converted from top-of-the-line Super Stockers or late model Modified Production class cars. If I were going to build an authentic replica of the 1971 Motown Missile … I would start with a stock first generation Dodge Challenger kit or promo and add modifications allowed per the rule book. This mimics how most of the real cars were built circa 1971. Aside from the motive force and running gear, the ‘Missile (like all Pro Stockers of that era) was surprisingly factory stock.
 
 
Need proof? Here’s the 1971 NHRA Rule Book mandates for Pro Stock Eliminator: “Reserved for American built cars with American automobile engines with a wheelbase of 100 inches or more. Body, engine, drive train, chassis, etc., may not be altered, modified or relocated, except as outlined in Class Requirements.”
Now, here are those Class Requirements: Stock Body (fiberglass hood with scoop, front fenders & rear deck okay), Stock Bumpers & Grill, Stock Driver Location (upholstered bucket seats okay) Roll Bar & Seat Belts Mandatory, Stock Firewall, Stock Fender Splash Pans, Stock Fuel Tank, Stock Automobile Frame for Car Body Used (properly reinforced stepped frame okay), Stock Frame Cross Members (may be altered for engine/tranny swap), Stock Radiator, Stock Front Suspension, Any Rear End Okay, Any Stock-Type Tranny, Full Stock Interior Trim Must be Retained, Any Internal Engine Modification Okay (Carbs limited to 2-4V or 4-2V & open headers), Traction Bars Okay, and Slicks Okay (rear tire tread may not exceed two inches outside the rear fender which must retain the original contours). Additionally, the battery can be relocated to the trunk … and any street equipment which does not affect the external appearance of the car may be removed.
Per the rules … back in the day, the NHRA was diligent to keep the “stock” in Pro Stock (aka the Factory Hot Rods). So -- with the rule book as a guide, augmented with research info – it seems logical for one who wants to build an accurate 1971 Motown Missile replica to start with a stock Dodge Challenger kit.
Modeling Considerations: Transforming a first gen Challenger street car into the “Motown Missile” Pro Stocker. The body would be stock, but the distinctive ‘Missile hood scoop would have to be fabricated. The interior would be stock with the addition of a roll bar and racing shifter (research would determine the roll bar configuration i.e. 2, 4, 6-point and type of shifter i.e. 4-speed w/line loc, etc.). The chassis and front suspension would be stock, but research would also dictate modifications in terms of frame reinforcement, cross bar modifications, traction bar installation, and rear axle type and mounting. Plus, the ‘Missile’s unique wheelie “bars” would have to be researched and fabricated. And, of course, a full-race Dodge hemi with a tunnel ram and two 4-bbl carbs would have to be sourced and installed. Finally, paint and graphics based on prototype variant.
A few words about wheel size: the 1971 ‘Missile used solid, one-piece cast Gyro wheels manufactured by the Racing Division of the Fenton Wheel Company of Gardena, California. The 1971 Gyro product line was designed especially for NHRA Pro Stock Eliminator. The front wheel size was 3-1/2” x 15” and the rear wheel size was 8-1/2” x 15” (which was the widest size available). I have no idea what size slick was used on the ‘Missile … but an 8-1/2” wide wheel is not that wide! So, if I was building a replica, the absolute maximum width rear tire I would use would be Monogram’s 1/24th scale “show rod” slicks (which are based on Goodyear Blue Streak Dragway Specials 11.00-15) … definitely not a Revell dragster/funny car slick. If research proves the car ran Firestone Drag 500’s -- the Goodyear lettering can be sanded away.
Building any replica is a challenge – especially a car that raced 46-years ago! But it’s a very admirable ambition to attempt such a project. I saw the Motown Missile race … it had that something extra: a no-nonsense look and strictly business reputation.  The ‘Missile was all about performance and it contributed greatly towards making Pro Stock Eliminator an integral part of NHRA Championship Drag Racing’s Golden Age.

 

 
  • Member since
    March, 2012
Posted by GTX6970 on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 7:30 AM

To me it depends on how much detail your after. The chassis / floor pan on the Johan cuda leaves a lot to be desired for close to stock  and or detail compared to say the current revell offerring. But the Johan would be the easiest to make work .

 

The Comp resin body is based on the old MPC 1970-71 Challenger kit. ( I have them both here )

I know I did some basic test fitting and the revell chassis will fit an MPC 1971 Cuda body. So I assume with some work it will also fit the Comp resin 71 Challenger body.

  • Member since
    March, 2017
  • From: Brighton England
Posted by Spencer Mopar Fan on Wednesday, March 22, 2017 12:07 PM

Good taste in cars !

Zip it!Good luck with the builds

  • Member since
    July, 2011
Posted by Racer H on Saturday, March 25, 2017 4:56 PM
This is a follow-up to my previous post promoting the rational of converting a first generation stock Dodge Challenger kit into the 1917 Motown Missile Pro Stocker. While visiting the Revell web site, I came upon a kit that would be a perfect candidate for such a conversion. It’s Revell’s kit # 2596 ’70 Dodge Challenger T/A 2 ‘n 1 (1/24th Scale, Skill Level 2). What’s great about the Revell site is the option to download the instructions, as I did. This way builders can make a more informed purchasing decision when they know exactly what parts and pieces are included … and if they fit a particular project.
So, to build a hassle-free Motown Missile: use the kit’s stock body (keep the license plate frame on the front bumper, as the ‘Missile had a “Dodge” script plate) … the stock interior would need a roll bar, racing harness, competition shifter, and a tach … and the stock chassis is perfect. The front suspension appears to be a separate one-piece affair (if needed, changing spindle height is easy), and the stock rear axle/leaf springs/drive shaft appears to be a separate one-piece unit that could be modified to accommodate slicks and mount wheelie bars (to swap a racing rear axle/modified springs/traction devise -- either sourced or scratch built -- would be easy). There are a wealth of Motown Missile reference photos on the ‘net … helpful to getting the right stance.
The kit comes with a 340 c.i.d. small block mill definitely not suited for Pro Stock games. Also included are ancillary parts for a street machine option. Here’s where things get interesting … according to the instructions, the kit comes with a high-rise manifold and dual carbs, and an optional hood with a cut-out for carburetor clearance. Most likely, these parts could be used “as is” or modified into respectable Pro Stock hardware added to a parts box Hemi. The kit’s tranny would be suitable. Check out the April, 2017 issue of Scale Auto for a “how-to” article on scratch building headers. Finally, creating the ‘Missile’s unique hood scoop is essential. Perhaps, a resin caster has an available unit or one that could be modified. I, personally, would scratch build one probably incorporating the kit’s T/A scoop which is a separate piece.
I’m quite sure the ‘Missile’s Fenton Gyro wheels are available in resin. If not, there are lots of “deep dish” slotted look-alike wheels in street rod kits. The battery molded to the engine bay would have to be removed and replaced with sheet styrene (0.20, etc.). Hinges on the hood would also go as lift-off fiberglass hoods were the order of the day. If so desired, the ‘glass rear deck could also be given the lift-off treatment and the trunk interior can be built with plastic sheet and detailed with a battery. Reference photos would determine paint hue and graphics should be available or can be achieved with original art or a word processing program.
Best of all, the Revell ’70 Dodge Challenger T/A 2 ‘n 1 kit is available by mail order for less than $20-dollars. I sincerely believe this kit would be a perfect starting point for building an authentic scale representation of the 1971 Motown Missile. Ultimately, each modeler has their own parameters as to how much accuracy and detail is acceptable. The only thing that really matters is that the building experience is enjoyable. This could be a fun project!
 

 

NOTE: If anyone has an interest in the Motown Missile … check out the May 2017 issue of Hemmings Muscle Machines magazine. It features a really informative photo essay on the Motown-&-Mopar Missile family of Pro Stockers. The image of the ‘Missile on page 44 should prove an invaluable reference for anyone building a replica of this racer. It also illustrates just how stock appearing the car looked!
  • Member since
    August, 2014
Posted by trainwreck on Sunday, March 26, 2017 5:47 PM

Hey zk, if you have'nt lost your mind from all the info in this thread just look at the post from "GTX6970". This "IS" the answer you where looking for.  Trainwreck.

  • Member since
    August, 2016
Posted by zk6216 on Sunday, March 26, 2017 6:04 PM

Love all the replies and the build is going well I thinking I'm going to build two of them. Did some work and got the parts all fitted and ready! 

  • Member since
    August, 2014
Posted by trainwreck on Sunday, March 26, 2017 6:28 PM

Nice! Trainwreck.

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