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My thread about Model Cars Magazine's survival quite rightly got locked!

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  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Friday, June 22, 2018 10:26 PM

midnightprowler

No one said things aren't in a decline but negativism, disguised  as realism isn't going to help bring in fresh blood. Yeah amt is largely repops right now but they did do some nice new tool 5tand 6th gen Camaros. Maybe picking one up will help make more funds available for other new tools. Revell will be back, ROG just needs time to organize things. Be patient.

 

Whether or not I'm negative or positive will have little bearing on the hobby as a whole.

I can't save it by myself.

I expect that we are all adults here and can handle the truth.

Realism is just "what's real", it's not a disguise.

I believe that revell & Moebius will carry on for the forseeable future, but I feel pretty safe in saying that the hey day is over for modeling.

It's nice to think that the current kit producers will be back & reorganize, but for how long?

I think that we all know that AMT, Lindberg, MPC, Johan, etc, etc, etc, are never coming back.

It should make any of us who love the hobby pretty nervous that the only real American kit producers left, (Revell & Moebius) are basically hanging on by a thread.

It could all end tomorrow with almost zero warning.

It's a sad thought, but it's very possible.

 

Steve

 

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: East Bethel, Mn
Posted by midnightprowler on Saturday, June 23, 2018 5:38 AM

I get what you are saying, but until the casket lid is slammed shut and the coffin is buried, I believe there is hope. Hope is all one has sometimes. I see nothing that says AMT wont ever be making new tools. MPC perhaps. Nothing to solidly indicate Revell is dead, just in transition. So what if Mobius has been sold, it doesn't mean its dying. Things change and transition. Let's hope for the best and try to get fresh blood in instead of scaring them off. Truth be told if there was never another kit made I have enough to last until I die anyway.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

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  • Member since
    September, 2011
Posted by BUGATTI FAN on Sunday, June 24, 2018 2:21 AM

We can all speculate about the state of the hobby, and this has lead to some very healthy discussion on this thread. I do not think it will die completely but agree that the market has shrunk and the hobby will morph to suit.

  • Member since
    February, 2018
Posted by TonyO on Sunday, June 24, 2018 8:07 AM

midnightprowler

I get what you are saying, but until the casket lid is slammed shut and the coffin is buried, I believe there is hope. Hope is all one has sometimes. I see nothing that says AMT wont ever be making new tools. MPC perhaps. Nothing to solidly indicate Revell is dead, just in transition. So what if Mobius has been sold, it doesn't mean its dying. Things change and transition. Let's hope for the best and try to get fresh blood in instead of scaring them off. Truth be told if there was never another kit made I have enough to last until I die anyway.

 

So what exactly are you saying here Lee? You started out trying to be positive and upbeat, but then in the last sentence you pretty much did a 180 and said you could really care less about what happens. Just because you might have enough kits in your stash to suit your needs doesn't mean squat for the hobby's long term survival. Your statement doesn't give the so called "fresh blood" much reason or incentive to make the long term investment in the hobby.   

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: East Bethel, Mn
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, June 24, 2018 8:13 AM

I didn't say that at all. All I said was if the worst case scenerio did happen and everything went belly up I still have anough to keep me going. That's all I said. Why are yout trying to read anything else into it? I still feel very hopeful about everything turning around and I do what I can to get young d blood into it

. I just realize that I personally have plenty to keep me going, but at the same time try to remain hopeful for our hobby.

 

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: East Bethel, Mn
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, June 24, 2018 12:06 PM

We've seen declines in the hobby before, it almost died in the late 70s to late 80s. Then a resurgence happened that made it stronger than ever. Kit manufacturers went away, new ones took their place. I like to believe it can happen again.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: East Bethel, Mn
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, June 24, 2018 12:07 PM

BUGATTI FAN

We can all speculate about the state of the hobby, and this has lead to some very healthy discussion on this thread. I do not think it will die completely but agree that the market has shrunk and the hobby will morph to suit.

 

I completely agree.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
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Posted by Goofy62 on Sunday, June 24, 2018 4:10 PM

TonyO

 

 
midnightprowler

I get what you are saying, but until the casket lid is slammed shut and the coffin is buried, I believe there is hope. Hope is all one has sometimes. I see nothing that says AMT wont ever be making new tools. MPC perhaps. Nothing to solidly indicate Revell is dead, just in transition. So what if Mobius has been sold, it doesn't mean its dying. Things change and transition. Let's hope for the best and try to get fresh blood in instead of scaring them off. Truth be told if there was never another kit made I have enough to last until I die anyway.

 

 

 

So what exactly are you saying here Lee? You started out trying to be positive and upbeat, but then in the last sentence you pretty much did a 180 and said you could really care less about what happens. Just because you might have enough kits in your stash to suit your needs doesn't mean squat for the hobby's long term survival. Your statement doesn't give the so called "fresh blood" much reason or incentive to make the long term investment in the hobby.   

 

I don't think that we need to question Lee's motives.

Everybody has his own opinion on a matter like this & forums like this are designed for discussion.

 

Steve

  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Sunday, June 24, 2018 4:21 PM

midnightprowler

We've seen declines in the hobby before, it almost died in the late 70s to late 80s. Then a resurgence happened that made it stronger than ever. Kit manufacturers went away, new ones took their place. I like to believe it can happen again.

 

You're corrct about that, but I believe that there is a difference this time around.

The decline at the time that you mentioned was most likely the result of a lot of builders from our generation putting the hobby aside for a decade or two while they raised their families & concentrated on their careers.

The following resurgence was our generation coming back to the hobby after that hiatus.

The difference this time is that there is no longer a generation that was raised on kit building to follow us.

I'm afraid that we, the old farts that are doing the lion's share of the building today, are the last great generation of modeling.

There will be few builders around from the generation after us to carry on when we are gone, but in no where near the same numbers.

Without the numbers, the entire hobby in general will be in jeopardy of collapse.

Nobody to build the kits & read the magazines, equals no kits & no magazines.

 

Steve

 

  • Member since
    September, 2011
Posted by BUGATTI FAN on Sunday, June 24, 2018 5:30 PM

There was mention about firms like MPC JoHan AMT and so forth having gone. We must remember as auto modellers that the big manufacturers Airfix, Revell and Tamiya invest more in their core market, the aircraft and military vehicle modeller that keeps them afloat. Airfix have been busy 're fooling many of their aircraft kits as well as introducing brand new kits.

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: East Bethel, Mn
Posted by midnightprowler on Sunday, June 24, 2018 5:43 PM

Goofy62

 

 
midnightprowler

We've seen declines in the hobby before, it almost died in the late 70s to late 80s. Then a resurgence happened that made it stronger than ever. Kit manufacturers went away, new ones took their place. I like to believe it can happen again.

 

 

 

You're corrct about that, but I believe that there is a difference this time around.

 

The decline at the time that you mentioned was most likely the result of a lot of builders from our generation putting the hobby aside for a decade or two while they raised their families & concentrated on their careers.

The following resurgence was our generation coming back to the hobby after that hiatus.

The difference this time is that there is no longer a generation that was raised on kit building to follow us.

I'm afraid that we, the old farts that are doing the lion's share of the building today, are the last great generation of modeling.

There will be few builders around from the generation after us to carry on when we are gone, but in no where near the same numbers.

Without the numbers, the entire hobby in general will be in jeopardy of collapse.

Nobody to build the kits & read the magazines, equals no kits & no magazines.

 

Steve

 

 

you are correct, it is different this time around and your points are all valid. I too am concerned, and hope for the best. I think we agree more than disagree. It's more like I say tomato, long a, you say tomato, short a, lol.

i also think the resur of the hobby was partially due to kit makers doing a better job in terms of detail and build ability.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Sunday, June 24, 2018 7:33 PM

I personally think that the largest transformation in the hobby is likely to be 3D printing.

In the not too distant future, as 3D printing advances & becomes more affordable & simplified, there will increasingly become a smaller and smaller need for large injection molded kit manfacturers.

This could prove to be a boon for the hobby.

I can eventually see large injection molded kit manufacturers giving way to small entites that will offer 3D printing services for all sorts of kits & parts that we can only dream of presently.

I invision the possibility of a 3D printing "cottage industry" emerging and flourishing much like today's resin castors!

The only stumbling block to having infinite and affordable choices for kits and parts could be copyright issues with the car companies.

Hopefully that could be at least mitigated to some extent.

The next step could be as 3D printing becomes a household item, we might be able to purchase programs online for models & parts of all kinds & then print them ourselves at home!

Imagine waking up one morning and deciding that you would like to have a full detail 1/8th scale 1960 Buick Electra & being able to jump on your computer, make a quick transaction & be able to start printing parts within minutes!

Later that day, you have a complete fully detailed kit of your choice ready for building!

Unfortunately, we are probably old enough where we may not be able to take full advantage of such advancements, but there is always the possibility that something akin to this could spur coming generations to join our beloved hobby.

This is the good dream that sometimes accompanies the nightmare of model building as a hobby dying & disappearing forever.

 

Steve 

 

  • Member since
    June, 2013
Posted by Martinfan55 on Sunday, June 24, 2018 7:56 PM

Goofy62
I'm afraid that we, the old farts that are doing the lion's share of the building today, are the last great generation of modeling.



I mean this with every bit of respect, but you need to look outside of your little bubble,  there are more younger people building model cars around the world then I think there are older guys, but the reason why you do see it, is because they are not posting on model forums made up primary of older men.  They post on the other forms of social media like Facebook/Instagram and so on.

 

And the other thing, they are building subjects that the older men turn their noses up at, newer foreign subjects.  That is what is hot right now, that is whats going to keep the them in the hobby, not 50 year old subjects from Round 2 and what was Revell USA.

The hobby is not dying, there is at least two generations under the baby boomers that are building models and helping the hobby grow , but you are not gonna see it from inside your little bubble.

Goofy62
Without the numbers, the entire hobby in general will be in jeopardy of collapse.


I do think the overall number of builders is going to shrink over time, I feel there there is going to be enough to keep the company's going for a long time.  And the other thing you over looking, is the hobby isn't just model cars, its everything, so even if building model cars dies out, there are other parts of the hobby that will keep the overall hobby going.  Automotive kits are just one part of the larger picture that is the hobby,  its going to out live most people here, and probably even me, someone in his 30's

But here is the thing, the hobby can not die as long as there are models to be built, and we all have enough kits to last us  few life times.  Sure, no new kits, but the hobby isn't about new kits, its about building kits, so as long as we can build them, its going to be alive in some way.

  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Sunday, June 24, 2018 11:42 PM

Martinfan55

 

 
Goofy62
I'm afraid that we, the old farts that are doing the lion's share of the building today, are the last great generation of modeling.

 



I mean this with every bit of respect, but you need to look outside of your little bubble,  there are more younger people building model cars around the world then I think there are older guys, but the reason why you do see it, is because they are not posting on model forums made up primary of older men.  They post on the other forms of social media like Facebook/Instagram and so on.

 

And the other thing, they are building subjects that the older men turn their noses up at, newer foreign subjects.  That is what is hot right now, that is whats going to keep the them in the hobby, not 50 year old subjects from Round 2 and what was Revell USA.

The hobby is not dying, there is at least two generations under the baby boomers that are building models and helping the hobby grow , but you are not gonna see it from inside your little bubble.

 
Goofy62
Without the numbers, the entire hobby in general will be in jeopardy of collapse.



I do think the overall number of builders is going to shrink over time, I feel there there is going to be enough to keep the company's going for a long time.  And the other thing you over looking, is the hobby isn't just model cars, its everything, so even if building model cars dies out, there are other parts of the hobby that will keep the overall hobby going.  Automotive kits are just one part of the larger picture that is the hobby,  its going to out live most people here, and probably even me, someone in his 30's

But here is the thing, the hobby can not die as long as there are models to be built, and we all have enough kits to last us  few life times.  Sure, no new kits, but the hobby isn't about new kits, its about building kits, so as long as we can build them, its going to be alive in some way.

 

 

I think that you may be under estimating the importance of my "little bubble".

I don't frequent a lot of model shows & contests, but when I do, it doesn't take a mathematition to realize that you could fit the under 30 demographic in attendance in a broom closet.

Maybe you're right, maybe there are more young builders than I am willing to admit, but I would have no hesitation in making the assumption that the modeling population in this country consists of well over 50% of people over the age of 50.

If you think of it in terms of how any business would fare if they lost 50% or more of their customers, there's no disputing that it would be devastating to that business.

I hope you're right.

I hope that there are as many young modelers coming up to fill the ranks of those that will eventually be exiting the hobby, but I have little confidence that that will be the case.

And likewise, what happens in other genres of the hobby is for a good percentage of car modelers, of little interest.

I for one would not start building models of the Titanic if I could no longer build cars.

Also, for the sake of this discussion, it's not really relevant that there are models around for us to build & therefore the hobby will not die.

We are discussing the vitality of the hobby, & to continue that vitality we require growth.

There is no growth in continuing to build from our private stashes for the next 50 years.

 

Steve

 

  • Member since
    September, 2011
Posted by BUGATTI FAN on Tuesday, June 26, 2018 6:00 PM

The mention of 3D printing taking off is interesting. Although the printers are coming down in price, large capacity machines will always be expensive. Besides this there is the cost of consumables and computer equipment able to handle the software. There is also the cost of the software plus the learning curve to get proficient in using it. As for downloading ready made programs for specific model parts is really wishful thinking considering the man hours involved in programming. I am talking from personal experience as a retired cad cam programmer. 3D printing is a bit of a slow process so it someone was willing to produce programs for a complete kit the end product would be prohibitively expensive.

  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by jchrisf on Thursday, June 28, 2018 1:59 PM

Well, model car mag's website is down now.. looks like they finally went under.

  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Thursday, June 28, 2018 2:48 PM

jchrisf

Well, model car mag's website is down now.. looks like they finally went under.

 

Doubtful.

I was on the site just about 15-20 minutes ago responding to a personal message.

Probably just a glitch or some updating.

I think that the site going down for a half an hour or so is hardly cause for concern that they "went under".

By the way, I was quite surprised that the mods decided to put this thread back up.

It's nice to see them make a good call.

Maybe now I can stick around for a while.

 

Steve

  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by jchrisf on Thursday, June 28, 2018 4:31 PM

LOL.. I was just joking.  But it is still down.  I remember reading a thread this morning from an admin that said he thought he figured out why the forum was slow.. maybe he accidently broke it trying to fix it, or the hackers that he discovered and tried to block got more aggresive... or was that something I read here?

  • Member since
    January, 2004
  • From: Charlotte
Posted by mikemodeler on Thursday, June 28, 2018 5:19 PM
There are younger modelers out there, they just don't share like us older builders do. They aren't as concerned as we are with model contests and online forums because those two mediums haven't been kind to them in the past so they moved on to other places, like Facebook and Instagram as Martinfan pointed out. While it is sad that long time resin caster The Modelhaus went out of business, there has been several more that have stepped in and offer stuff to enhance models that are out now, not some replacement parts for a 60 year old vehicle.This hobby is changing and many factors are the reason.
  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Thursday, June 28, 2018 6:53 PM

jchrisf

LOL.. I was just joking.  But it is still down.  I remember reading a thread this morning from an admin that said he thought he figured out why the forum was slow.. maybe he accidently broke it trying to fix it, or the hackers that he discovered and tried to block got more aggresive... or was that something I read here?

 

The few times that I went back and checked to see if it was up, a message appears on my screen that says that they have exceeded their bandwidth, or something to that affect.

Maybe it's time to upgrade to the "family plan"! Big Smile

 

 

Steve

  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Thursday, June 28, 2018 7:06 PM

mikemodeler
There are younger modelers out there, they just don't share like us older builders do. They aren't as concerned as we are with model contests and online forums because those two mediums haven't been kind to them in the past so they moved on to other places, like Facebook and Instagram as Martinfan pointed out. While it is sad that long time resin caster The Modelhaus went out of business, there has been several more that have stepped in and offer stuff to enhance models that are out now, not some replacement parts for a 60 year old vehicle.This hobby is changing and many factors are the reason.
 

Oh, I don't disagree that they are out there.

They just aren't out there in the numbers that will keep the hobby healthy & thriving when all of the "baby boomers" are gone.

I agree that the hobby will likely be around for a very long time, I just believe that the options that we have enjoyed for decades will continue to dwindle as they have been with no real end in sight as far as kit manufacturers go.

It's difficult to make the arguement that the kit companies are robust & growing.

It's obvious that they are struggling & a continued slide in the number of people buying kits is not going to help in the least.

The foreign kit companies may be doing ok for the time being, but there is no doubt that the American companies are on the rocks, & if the "60 year old vehicles" are no longer attainable, the decline will be even faster because the hobby will lose a lot of people who are not interested in foreign & exotic cars.

I build models not because I'm so interested in "building models", but because I'm interested in the type of models I build.

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

  • Member since
    November, 2003
  • From: East Bethel, Mn
Posted by midnightprowler on Friday, June 29, 2018 3:09 AM

Goofy62

 

 .

I build models not because I'm so interested in "building models", but because I'm interested in the type of models I build.

 

 

Steve

 

 

 

 

 X2. Don't have alot of interest in exotics, there are some classic foreign cars I have alot of interest in, and not much interest in most modern vehicles with a few exceptions. The Asian kitmakers focus on modern and exotics.

1 Corinthians 15:51-54
1 Thessalonians 4:13-18

Ask me about Speedway Decals

  • Member since
    February, 2018
Posted by TonyO on Friday, June 29, 2018 5:20 AM

jchrisf

I remember reading a thread this morning from an admin that said he thought he figured out why the forum was slow.. maybe he accidently broke it trying to fix it, or the hackers that he discovered and tried to block got more aggresive...

 
I read that post as well. I think it was a group of disgruntled subscribers from Dominica looking for their next issue ....
  • Member since
    April, 2018
Posted by jchrisf on Friday, June 29, 2018 7:21 AM

TonyO

 

 
 

 

 
I read that post as well. I think it was a group of disgruntled subscribers from Dominica looking for their next issue ....
 

LOLLaugh

  • Member since
    September, 2011
Posted by BUGATTI FAN on Friday, July 06, 2018 1:25 AM

Regarding earlier posts about MC M website up or down?

Is their forum being confused with their editorial website?

  • Member since
    February, 2004
Posted by rcarlisle on Friday, July 06, 2018 11:16 AM

I gotta say, I love the MCM forum more than SA's. BUT... I keep my SA subcription going and never even thought about MCM magazine. If I see it at hobby shop I'll buy one.  Too sporadic.

But SA has my undying loyalty for no other reason than I do love a paper magazine to peruse. Wish it were monthly, but might not be able to afford a monthly.  I get tired of looking at my phone or tablet all the time and SA giives me a break form that.  Now can we have a LARGE TYPE edition? Old eyes and all.

  • Member since
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  • From: Texas
Posted by jkitman on Friday, July 06, 2018 6:32 PM

I subscribe to MCM and I know they just had someone there die. Im sorry to hear that. Yes, they are struggling and  apparently for quite a while,  but Im still supporting them. I also support  SAE. I cant hate someone that goes to that much trouble.  And Im sure publishing  a magazine is a royal pain in the butt. I just have to except the way it is, because when I get an issue of MCM, I always enjoy it. I must say SAE seems a little more together,  but thats ok. And theres no doubt our hobby is dwindling and will one day fold. I myself still buy kits. Ive become a collector more than a builder. I still like going to model contests but they are far and few between.  Its a shame, but I dont think we can fix it. The younger generation has become consumed by  cell phones and Facebook.  They are the "instant gratification  generation " and we cant change that. Nothing stays the same.  But Im still going to support all aspects of the hobby until its gone. I was thinking that the kit manufacturers are not releasing some of the old kits because they have sell at least l0,000 copies to be profitable.  So how about  making  a limited release of say 5000 copies at 35 or 40 dollars each. There are some kits that I would like to have(the elegant farmer for one), that were going to be released  but were cancelled  because they felt they couldnt sell enough. That might be a way around that issue. What do you guys think? Another problem  that is happening is modelers say they want something and when  a model company releases it, people dont buy it. And when you lose money  on a venture, you cant continue like that. I dont know if you guys got the email from SAE or not,  but they took my suggestion about a survey  about what you want to see issued.  No reissues,  just a new kit idea. I myself would like to see a new kit of a 2017 or 2018 Ford Super Duty pickup. They could make it available with a stock gasoline engine  and an optional  diesel with a big exhaust and maybe a single rear axle and a dualie option.  I think that would be cool. Sort of a different kind of  2 in 1 kit. What do you guys think?

  • Member since
    May, 2015
Posted by Goofy62 on Friday, July 06, 2018 8:34 PM

jkitman

I subscribe to MCM and I know they just had someone there die. Im sorry to hear that. Yes, they are struggling and  apparently for quite a while,  but Im still supporting them. I also support  SAE. I cant hate someone that goes to that much trouble.  And Im sure publishing  a magazine is a royal pain in the butt. I just have to except the way it is, because when I get an issue of MCM, I always enjoy it. I must say SAE seems a little more together,  but thats ok. And theres no doubt our hobby is dwindling and will one day fold. I myself still buy kits. Ive become a collector more than a builder. I still like going to model contests but they are far and few between.  Its a shame, but I dont think we can fix it. The younger generation has become consumed by  cell phones and Facebook.  They are the "instant gratification  generation " and we cant change that. Nothing stays the same.  But Im still going to support all aspects of the hobby until its gone. I was thinking that the kit manufacturers are not releasing some of the old kits because they have sell at least l0,000 copies to be profitable.  So how about  making  a limited release of say 5000 copies at 35 or 40 dollars each. There are some kits that I would like to have(the elegant farmer for one), that were going to be released  but were cancelled  because they felt they couldnt sell enough. That might be a way around that issue. What do you guys think? Another problem  that is happening is modelers say they want something and when  a model company releases it, people dont buy it. And when you lose money  on a venture, you cant continue like that. I dont know if you guys got the email from SAE or not,  but they took my suggestion about a survey  about what you want to see issued.  No reissues,  just a new kit idea. I myself would like to see a new kit of a 2017 or 2018 Ford Super Duty pickup. They could make it available with a stock gasoline engine  and an optional  diesel with a big exhaust and maybe a single rear axle and a dualie option.  I think that would be cool. Sort of a different kind of  2 in 1 kit. What do you guys think?

 

That's the problem.

You're talking about a very limited market.

There are not enough potential builders of a new Ford Super Duty truck to justify an all new tool of that particular kit.

As you said, at least 10,000 units need to be sold to make it profitable.

In todays world, kit manufacturers need to come up with kits that can be sold in numerous versions with minimal change to the molds.

If you look at Moebius models latest offerings as an example, the kits that they introduce have been offered in varoius stock & racing configurations as well as concurrent years.

The '55 Chrysler 300 has been offered stock, as well as racing versions & has been morphed into a '56 as well.

Very similar with the Hudson kits.

And at least the Chrysler 300 kit has more variations that could be done if Moebius saw fit, moving on to New Yorker or Desoto models, as well as convertibles or even an exclusive '56 Desoto pace car kit.

There are likely not enough variations that could justify a 2018 Super Duty Ford.

They need to find subjects that can attract the most customers possible.

At this point, I don't think that most of the kit producers are thinking much about new kit tooling.

They are likely spending the majority of their time trying to figure out how to remain solvent.

 

Steve

 

Moderator
  • Member since
    December, 2017
Posted by Dale Gribble on Friday, July 06, 2018 8:35 PM

Id buy a case of the super dutys you suggest , many possible options of build style there !

 

It's sad that the younger generation doesn't build , we have to do everything possible to change that . Even if that means using their platforms (YouTube , Facebook , etc) to convey the hobby . I think that would be an excellent reach out attempt . 

your friendly neighborhood spam eliminator... 

build it, dont let it sit on the shelf.....rareity is for sissies ! 

  • Member since
    September, 2008
  • From: Texas
Posted by jkitman on Friday, July 06, 2018 11:53 PM

My booboo.  It wasnt an email, it was an article in the Aug 2018 issue of SAE. We need everyone to go to the address in the article and put you vote in. Please read the article and pay attention to the details. Thanks .

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